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Thread: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle Probl

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Keep telling yourself that. That's what they want you to think, and what they're spending damn good propaganda money trying to get you to believe.

    Oh, and don't forgot that Obama only wants to tax the 2%!
    Global Warming Is Propaganda!

    It was only a matter of time before your Denialism was exposed! Science is no friend to conservatives and their fetishes.

    Meanwhile, it looks like the rest of the country has moved on, just like it move on from conservative homophobia, misogyny, hatred of nature, and immigrant bashing.

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle Problem

    Looks like Obama and the Democrats are ahead of the curve on another issue, as the GOP and conservatives sink into a retrograde irrelevancy.
    Bull****, Obama SOTU speech was a massive failure.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Global Warming Is Propaganda!

    It was only a matter of time before your Denialism was exposed! Science is no friend to conservatives and their fetishes.

    Meanwhile, it looks like the rest of the country has moved on, just like it move on from conservative homophobia, misogyny, hatred of nature, and immigrant bashing.
    Leftwing noise machine meme continues.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Leftwing noise machine meme continues.
    So now the League of Women Voters is the leftwing noise machine?

    Curiouser and curiouser. Do you also sense the presence of marxists under your bed at night?

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Global Warming Is Propaganda!

    It was only a matter of time before your Denialism was exposed! Science is no friend to conservatives and their fetishes.

    Meanwhile, it looks like the rest of the country has moved on, just like it move on from conservative homophobia, misogyny, hatred of nature, and immigrant bashing.
    Ugh... Is it bad that you're actually making me wish I was back on a majority Liberal forum? Even with the constant abuse, they at least tend to know how to argue in a somewhat competent fashion.

    In any case, no one's "denied" anything. While I do feel that the "threat" posed by Global Warming tends to be massively overstated, anyone with even a cursory knowledge of geology knows that global temperatures have been gradually rising over the last several centuries.

    My point was that the Left harps on "Global Warming" to such a large degree - spending literal billions on the environmental lobby and "awareness" mass media campaigns centered around the issue - precisely because they know that people like yourself will buy into their alarmist rhetoric without any shred of skepticism or objectivity. They use the "environment" as an excuse to push through all kinds of taxes, regulations, and quasi-socialist policies aimed at furthering their own agenda because they know that so long as they frame the issue around "global warming," instead of the petty politics and ideology it really concerns, most people will buy it.

    I hate to break it to you, but Cap and Trade, Carbon Credits, and the G8 have precious little to do with the environment, and everything to do with forwarding the political agendas of the parties involved.

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    I hate to break it to you, but Cap and Trade, Carbon Credits, and the G8 have precious little to do with the environment, and everything to do with forwarding the political agendas of the parties involved.
    A cap-and-trade approach was effective in reducing SO2 emissions and largely eliminating North America's acid rain problem. This time around, one is dealing with a global scale issue. Without broad participation by the nations with the highest CO2 emissions, such an approach won't have the same level of effectiveness as the earlier program which dealt with a regional problem. China, for example, is not going to participate in a program that caps its CO2 emissions anytime soon. However, China does face a growing air pollution problem, highlighted by some recent spectacular outbreaks of smog in January, that is creating pressure for China to combat its growing air pollution problem.

    Now, if one believes there is no link between CO2 and climate change, then one can freely dismiss policy options aimed at reducing CO2 emissions. However, most credible scientific work suggests that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are responsible for pushing annual emissions above annual absorption leading to the growing atmospheric share of CO2. Most credible scientific work suggests that anthropogenic factors (led by CO2) has created an energy imbalance that is responsible for most of the observed warming that has occurred since the mid-20th century.

    Policy makers, of course, must balance many considerations. They do not make policy exclusively on economic terms or scientific terms. The 2009 stimulus package achieved less bang-for-the-buck because it included low multiplier items e.g., temporary tax breaks. That was done for political reasons (to build majority support) and social reasons (to cushion workers from some of the pain) at the trade-off of economic interests (substituting low multiplier items for high multiplier ones). The same will be involved in climate change policy. Energy supply realities (one can't readily and immediately replace fossil fuels, much less in a cost-effective fashion), economic ones (balancing growth with restraint on CO2 emissions), social ones (trying to avoid a situation analagous to a regressive tax), etc. Hence, the policy path will likely prove far slower than some of the scientists involved in climate change research might prefer based on today's scientific understanding.

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    A cap-and-trade approach was effective in reducing SO2 emissions and largely eliminating North America's acid rain problem.
    Proof?

    This time around, one is dealing with a global scale issue. Without broad participation by the nations with the highest CO2 emissions, such an approach won't have the same level of effectiveness as the earlier program which dealt with a regional problem. China, for example, is not going to participate in a program that caps its CO2 emissions anytime soon. However, China does face a growing air pollution problem, highlighted by some recent spectacular outbreaks of smog in January, that is creating pressure for China to combat its growing air pollution problem.

    Now, if one believes there is no link between CO2 and climate change, then one can freely dismiss policy options aimed at reducing CO2 emissions. However, most credible scientific work suggests that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are responsible for pushing annual emissions above annual absorption leading to the growing atmospheric share of CO2. Most credible scientific work suggests that anthropogenic factors (led by CO2) has created an energy imbalance that is responsible for most of the observed warming that has occurred since the mid-20th century.
    Perhaps, but your own argument highlights the major problem with the "global" approach. The whole game becomes a giant case of the "prisoner's dilemma." Frankly, a lot of political elements on the Left and in the developing world lilke it that way.

    The simple fact of the matter is that the majority of CO2 emissions today do not come from First World nations, but the developing world. In spite of this, just about every "call to action" in the West has focused on our supposed "guilt" for perpetuating the current "climate crisis" and demanded that we change our own behavior in such a way that will hamper our economic competitiveness in relation to up and coming powers like China and India while virtually ignoring the developing world.

    Naturally, nations like China and India are just "A-okay" with this plan, and so are a lot of Leftist academics who have never quite gotten off of the "Imperialist Capitalism was bad, so the West HAS TO PAY" band wagon.

    For example, just look at any of the agenda pieces Greenpeace or other similarly aggressive environmental groups put out. If you were to simply replace every instance of the word "climate" or "global warming" in their rhetoric with "proletariat" and "Capitalist oppression," there would effectively be no difference between their own views and those of the Revolutionary Marxist groups of the early 20th Century. They are clearly far more concerned with perceived "Western decadence" than any kind of environmental protectionism.

    Don't even get me started on "feel good" but ultimately useless initiatives like carbon credits.

    The whole movement needs to be taken with a rather large grain of salt because there are some rather large interests at play beyond simple environmentalism, is all I'm saying.

    Policy makers, of course, must balance many considerations. They do not make policy exclusively on economic terms or scientific terms. The 2009 stimulus package achieved less bang-for-the-buck because it included low multiplier items e.g., temporary tax breaks. That was done for political reasons (to build majority support) and social reasons (to cushion workers from some of the pain) at the trade-off of economic interests (substituting low multiplier items for high multiplier ones). The same will be involved in climate change policy. Energy supply realities (one can't readily and immediately replace fossil fuels, much less in a cost-effective fashion), economic ones (balancing growth with restraint on CO2 emissions), social ones (trying to avoid a situation analagous to a regressive tax), etc. Hence, the policy path will likely prove far slower than some of the scientists involved in climate change research might prefer based on today's scientific understanding.
    You're not really helping your case by comparing Global Warming policy with the string of useless bailout and stimulus packages Washington has been churning out for the last five years.

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    So now the League of Women Voters is the leftwing noise machine?

    Curiouser and curiouser. Do you also sense the presence of marxists under your bed at night?
    Get a clue dude...everybody knows Marxists hide in the closet, it's carriers of the gay disease that hide under beds.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    A cap-and-trade approach was effective in reducing SO2 emissions and largely eliminating North America's acid rain problem. This time around, one is dealing with a global scale issue. Without broad participation by the nations with the highest CO2 emissions, such an approach won't have the same level of effectiveness as the earlier program which dealt with a regional problem. China, for example, is not going to participate in a program that caps its CO2 emissions anytime soon. However, China does face a growing air pollution problem, highlighted by some recent spectacular outbreaks of smog in January, that is creating pressure for China to combat its growing air pollution problem.

    Now, if one believes there is no link between CO2 and climate change, then one can freely dismiss policy options aimed at reducing CO2 emissions. However, most credible scientific work suggests that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are responsible for pushing annual emissions above annual absorption leading to the growing atmospheric share of CO2. Most credible scientific work suggests that anthropogenic factors (led by CO2) has created an energy imbalance that is responsible for most of the observed warming that has occurred since the mid-20th century.

    Policy makers, of course, must balance many considerations. They do not make policy exclusively on economic terms or scientific terms. The 2009 stimulus package achieved less bang-for-the-buck because it included low multiplier items e.g., temporary tax breaks. That was done for political reasons (to build majority support) and social reasons (to cushion workers from some of the pain) at the trade-off of economic interests (substituting low multiplier items for high multiplier ones). The same will be involved in climate change policy. Energy supply realities (one can't readily and immediately replace fossil fuels, much less in a cost-effective fashion), economic ones (balancing growth with restraint on CO2 emissions), social ones (trying to avoid a situation analagous to a regressive tax), etc. Hence, the policy path will likely prove far slower than some of the scientists involved in climate change research might prefer based on today's scientific understanding.
    You need to post more often imo.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Obama Climate Change Poll Finds Majority Supports 'Significant Steps' To Tackle P

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Keep dreaming. Whatever significant steps are, the GOP opposes them. They can't even accept the science.

    The American people have noticed. So it's another losing issue for the GOP. Are they any that aren't?
    Jesus. You are so blinded by partisanship and false assumptions you can't even make an objective post. How do you know what conservatives would oppose if you don't even know what the proposals are? YOU CAN'T. So many assumptions you make about conservatives are so far off base that it is clear that what others really think can't even be seen from atop your pillar of self delusion. And in case you haven't figured it out yet, man made global warming is not "science". Scientific fact can be proven and duplicated. MMGW is a theory, one predicated on false assumptions reliant on mouth breathing emotional plebes to move forward at a profit for those who tout it. Look at Al Gore. He's made a pretty good living off of it while personally living by none of the standards he and you would impose on others.

    Classic liberal strategy:

    Create a problem
    Insist something be done
    Assume the government must be the entity to do it
    Create a "solution" that may have to bearing on reality or fact
    Denigrate anyone who has a different perspective
    Profit

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