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Thread: Anonymous Threatens Massive WikiLeaks-Style Exposure, Announced On Hacked Gov Site

  1. #41
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    Re: Constrictive Hacking!

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Exposing constitutional violations, war crimes, or other atrocities is not a violent act.
    It wouldn't be, but since nobody seems to be doing that, I don't see the relevance. If Anonymous did have evidence of war crimes and atrocities but was sitting on that evidence for their own political ends, it would make their actions worse, not better. I suspect their information involves much more mundane, personal indiscretions though. It's still blackmail though and thus still a criminal act. Two wrongs don't make a right.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    You comparing it to one is beyond ridiculous. If you'd like to explain how it's even remotely similar, we'd all love to hear it.
    My point is that people are supporting, even promoting blackmail and cyber-attacks because they agree strongly with the stated cause. Nothing here suggests they wouldn't support the other means I suggested for the same cause.

    Again, if some people were doing exactly the same thing but with the intention of pushing the policy in the opposite direction, all these supporters would be joining me in condemning these criminal acts. It's that hypocracy that I object to.

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    Re: Constrictive Hacking!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    I really believe it an injustice to the victims of terrorism that the use of the word terrorist and terrorism is thrown about in such a cavalier manner.

    A terrorist is a person or group of people who attack innocentmon-involved people and/or non-specific/involved locations to bring about a change in governmental or organizational policy.

    A freedom fighter(s) is/are a person or group of people who attack specific and involved people and/ or locations to bring about a change in governmental or organizational policy.
    In my partial defence, I first used the phrase "practically terrorism" and others seem to have only picked up on the second word.

    That said, I don't entirely agree with your definitions. Terrorism can still constitute an attack against government, politicians even soldiers (outside combat zones), not just "innocents". The key point in this context is that it is an attack or threat used to force a change in policy.

    Freedom fighters are people fighting for freedom. They may commit terrorism or they may not. The terms aren't mutually exclusive.

    What Anonymous in this case seem to be doing it stating that they have some damaging information and have threatened to release it if government doesn’t implement the policies they're demanding. They've not stated what the information is or who it entails though they have referred to "collateral damage", suggesting some "innocents" could be harmed by the release too.

    To my mind, it is only the lack of actual physical threats that differentiates their actions from the literal definition of terrorism and, in context, I don't think the distinction is all that significant. That somewhat depends on the nature of the information of course.

    To be honest, the word terrorism is something of a distraction here. The word blackmail most certainly does apply, that is most certainly a criminal act and whether you agree with the aims of the blackmail doesn't change that one jot.

  3. #43
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    Re: Constrictive Hacking!

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    It wouldn't be, but since nobody seems to be doing that, I don't see the relevance. If Anonymous did have evidence of war crimes and atrocities but was sitting on that evidence for their own political ends, it would make their actions worse, not better. I suspect their information involves much more mundane, personal indiscretions though. It's still blackmail though and thus still a criminal act. Two wrongs don't make a right.

    My point is that people are supporting, even promoting blackmail and cyber-attacks because they agree strongly with the stated cause. Nothing here suggests they wouldn't support the other means I suggested for the same cause.

    Again, if some people were doing exactly the same thing but with the intention of pushing the policy in the opposite direction, all these supporters would be joining me in condemning these criminal acts. It's that hypocracy that I object to.
    If they're pushing for something that a person doesn't agree with, of course they won't support it. You can't discount the REASONING behind something while you scoff at the means. The reasoning behind something is the most important part. If the US invaded a country, don't you think it would matter if we did it for oil, or if we did it to stop serious human rights violations? War is horrible regardless, but in one of those cases it just might be justified.

    Wikileaks exposed war crimes, and I'm sure you were screaming the same terrorist BS you are now, right along with our politicians.
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    Re: Constrictive Hacking!

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The problem is...individuals define 'just cause' just as they define "right or wrong". Individuals do not define the law.
    Well of course. But as of right now, the law does not appear to be stopping them.
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    Re: Constrictive Hacking!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    Well of course. But as of right now, the law does not appear to be stopping them.
    As of now, they have talked a lot of ****. We'll see how it all plays out. I will be surprised (not upset...just surprised) if they have what they claim to have and manage to put it out without consequence. Even though they are I am sure a network of talented hackers, the government has got 'people' as well. So we'll see.

    As for the law not stopping them...Assange, Schwartz, Manning...they might disagree with you a bit.

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    Re: Constrictive Hacking!

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    As for the law not stopping them...Assange, Schwartz, Manning...they might disagree with you a bit.

    Perhaps. But that's three out of thousands.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
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    Re: Constrictive Hacking!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    Perhaps. But that's three out of thousands.
    1 responsible for Wikileaks, 1 responsible for Reddit, and one patsy responsible for delivering a buttload of materials. That aint so bad. And like I said...to date, Anonymous is a bunch of clowns running around in Guy Fawkes masks pretending to be relevant. Should they represent a 'real' threat to the US or any other government...Im betting the rules of engagement will change somewhat.

    Not saying I approve or disapprove...just...it is what it is.

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    Re: Constrictive Hacking!

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Hackers are always cool........until they **** you over.
    I think its the whole 'vigilante justice' aspect that makes Anon appealing to a lot of people. Hackers who target innocent people were never cool.
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    Re: Constrictive Hacking!

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    If they didn't style the announcement like the trailer of a movie I might take them more seriously. The music in the background was often louder than the speaker.

    Until I see the goods I'm not impressed.
    Maybe they'll pull it off, maybe not. But they have a track record that proves they should be taken seriously.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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    Re: Constrictive Hacking!

    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    It's kind of sad that we need hacktivists and wikileaks to force government transparency. Our governments should be more accountable by default.
    In the past it was guns and violence that forced transparency. I prefer this.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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