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Thread: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Your parenthetical is not appreciated-- as I noted, I am not atheist but pagan, an Ásatrúar, and I am devoutly religious. And yes, my faith absolutely does prohibit me from saying "So help me God" or swearing any other oath on the Judeochristian deity along with any other non-Germanic deity.
    I don't like the oath and we all know this would NOT pass a federal court challenge.

    BUT it does not say "Judeochristian" or "non-Germanic deity." It just says "God."

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Well... Yes it does matter, as it is all inclusive to any belief in a higher power.
    And it isn't a pledge to G_d, or a god either, but to "support and defend the Constitution".
    Well i see it as an oath and I should maintain the right to not say it. Why should I be forced by the government to say it?

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    It is not just an offense to other religions such as "Jehovahs Witnesses" who do not say "God," to Muslims who say "Alah" etc. However, there also are non-judeochristian religions that do use "God."

    In short, for it's wording it is not specifically "Judeochristian" and it is not just offensive to atheists.

    What is so unfortunate is that if it passed, some student will have to be put all over the media as the test-student for a federal court challenge.

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Well i see it as an oath and I should maintain the right to not say it. Why should I be forced by the government to say it?
    Why should we be forced by the Government to do anything? That fact is that we are all the time.
    Should the Government just excuse anybody from not doing what they don't like?


    Don't like it, fight it before it before it gets considered.
    Don't like it, fight it in Court.
    Don't like it, don't say G_d. Unless you purposely made it obvious, I doubt anybody would make an issue out of it.

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    So you are saying that your deity, or one of them, isn't a god?
    Well the use of God is the belief of one supreme being. Would you have a problem with an oath "So help me Gods?". I mean...that would be sacrilegious since the chief tenant in Judeo-Christian related religions is the belief in one supreme being.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    "God" is a capitalized proper noun and any person of Judeochristian faith will be happy to tell you refers only to their god. I am as excluded as any atheist.
    Viktyr- I ask only because I am ignorant of such things. Is it against your religious beliefs to say your gods name during this pledge, or say Gods if there are more than one? I am not about stomping on peoples religious beliefs and believe there is a solution to your concern. Personally I too think this is a bit over the top. I would hope all American citizens would try to uphold our Constitution without needing to take a pledge. I completely understand Military, Law Enforcement, Politicians, Judges, Etc taking it but students are another thing. Need to think on this some more

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Does your (lack of) religion prohibit you from saying "So help me God"?
    A sense of honor dictates that you cannot say "so help me god" in an oath if you do not believe in God.
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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Well the use of God is the belief of one supreme being. Would you have a problem with an oath "So help me Gods?". I mean...that would be sacrilegious since the chief tenant in Judeo-Christian related religions is the belief in one supreme being.
    I would have no problem with it if it stated "So help me Excon."
    But would prefer that it said something to the effect that the swearing was being done on the person's own integrity.

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    I would have no problem with it if it stated "So help me Excon."
    But would prefer that it said something to the effect that the swearing was being done on the person's own integrity.
    No I agree.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Well... Yes it does matter, as it is all inclusive to any belief in a higher power.
    And it isn't a pledge to G_d, or a god either, but to "support and defend the Constitution".
    Even if there were no mention of god at all, it'd still be an unconstitutional form of compelled speech. Even if there were no mention of supporting or defending the constitution, it'd be an unconstitutional violation of both the free expression and establishment clauses of the first amendment by requiring a) obiesance to a deity (of some sort) and b) by putting governmental imprimatur on belief, rather than absence of belief.

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