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Thread: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I believe in God and I wouldn't feel comfortable making such a pledge. To me it's a pledge to God to do something in his name. I am not against the constitution, but I shouldn't be required to makes pledge in God's name because of the government.

    If I move out of the country and live under a different constitution, that doesn't involve my faith. Nor should be an issue to me or provoke questioning if I am breaking a promise or pledge to God.
    What is G_d's name here?

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    What is G_d's name here?
    It doesn't matter if you argue the exact God is vague. When religious people speak of God, faith in God, worshipping God, etc. they don't speak vaguely, and they simply use the name God. They know what they mean.

    If you think the government should have the authority to force us to make pledges to God in public, that's one thing. But to tell me to just use the name of God generically in public, is a matter I would consider a direct assault on my rights and religion.

    I won't make a pledge in the name of a false God a different God. And I decide when I make a pledge or promise in God's name, not the government

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Does your (lack of) religion prohibit you from saying "So help me God"? If not than this "oath" clearly does not establish a religion nor prohibit the free exercise thereof.
    In all other cases where "So help me God" comes at the end of an oath, it is optional. Precedence runs against this idea, also I'd argue this falls under the same ruling about the Pledge of Allegiance that doesn't make it mandatory in schools.

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists To Graduate High School



    Awful damn hard to be a pagan and a conservative in this country when our so-called "conservative party" apparently hates you.
    So, what is the problem with atheists saying the oath? Will their tongues burst into fire?

    Seriously, it's just a meaningless bit of boilerplate to an atheist. So, what's the problem?

    This bridling over such things really makes it look like some atheists are into magical thinking. It looks more and more like it's their religion we are talking about.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    So, what is the problem with atheists saying the oath? Will their tongues burst into fire?

    Seriously, it's just a meaningless bit of boilerplate to an atheist. So, what's the problem?

    This bridling over such things really makes it look like some atheists are into magical thinking. It looks more and more like it's their religion we are talking about.
    by that notion, you should be comfortable with an oath of fealty to Stalin.

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    It doesn't matter if you argue the exact God is vague. When religious people speak of God, faith in God, worshipping God, etc. they don't speak vaguely, and they simply use the name God. They know what they mean.

    If you think the government should have the authority to force us to make pledges to God in public, that's one thing. But to tell me to just use the name of God generically in public, is a matter I would consider a direct assault on my rights and religion.

    I won't make a pledge in the name of a false God a different God. And I decide when I make a pledge or promise in God's name, not the government
    Well... Yes it does matter, as it is all inclusive to any belief in a higher power.
    And it isn't a pledge to G_d, or a god either, but to "support and defend the Constitution".
    Last edited by Excon; 01-31-13 at 10:40 PM.

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    In all other cases where "So help me God" comes at the end of an oath, it is optional. Precedence runs against this idea, also I'd argue this falls under the same ruling about the Pledge of Allegiance that doesn't make it mandatory in schools.
    I agree. Usually you have the option to either swear (an oath) or affirm (an affirmation) and the "So help be God" is optional as well, as for the Presidential oath/affirmation of office required by the Constitution.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    by that notion, you should be comfortable with an oath of fealty to Stalin.
    Sure, I'll just cross my fingers.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists To Graduate High School



    Awful damn hard to be a pagan and a conservative in this country when our so-called "conservative party" apparently hates you.
    I have not read the entire thread. I do live in Arizona and I love living here. That said, Arizona does seem to be the place where dumbass comes to die. Arizona ranks 48th in education. We have more than a few politicos who are educated way beyond their intelligence. The bill violates the 1st Amendment. Unfortunately, more than a few Arizona legislators have never read the US Constitution.

    The bill is what is termed as a "Wet Fart Bill". The outcome won't be what it felt like in the beginning.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists To Graduate High School



    Awful damn hard to be a pagan and a conservative in this country when our so-called "conservative party" apparently hates you.
    Well, on the upside, you can snicker at all the Christians who decorate their traditional winter solstice tree with shiny things, light candles, and hang greenery around the house, and then in the Spring, celebrate with fertility symbols, rabbit and egg, in the pagan spring holiday they now call Easter. I won't even bring up Halloween--America's second most popular pagan holiday.

    If only pagans could charge royalties for all the traditions, symbols, and wedding bands borrowed (stolen) by Christianity.

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