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Thread: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

  1. #91
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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    I would have no problem with it if it stated "So help me Excon."
    No I agree.
    Really?

    That's cool!

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    But would prefer that it said something to the effect that the swearing was being done on the person's own integrity.
    The problem with "So help me God" specifically as a reference to one's integrity is that many non-Judeochristians who swear an oath that contains that term cannot do so while maintaining their integrity.

    Think of it this way, I was raised Catholic and attend many Catholic ceremonies such as marriages and funerals for friends and family members. It is my integrity that prevents me from eating the Eucharist during these ceremonies. It would be no skin off of my nose to eat a piece of stale, ****ty bread, but because other people truly believe that such an act is truly a communion with Christ, rather than sharing some crappy bread, I do not feel that I can partake in that particular ritual honorably. So my integrity prevents me from doing so.

    I get **** for it from friends and family all the time, who think I am making some sort of stand against religion by doing so, but in truth I do it out of respect for the gravity that others place upon such rituals despite my own belief that they are pointless and silly.
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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The problem with "So help me God" specifically as a reference to one's integrity is that many non-Judeochristians who swear an oath that contains that term cannot do so while maintaining their integrity.

    Think of it this way, I was raised Catholic and attend many Catholic ceremonies such as marriages and funerals for friends and family members. It is my integrity that prevents me from eating the Eucharist during these ceremonies. It would be no skin off of my nose to eat a piece of stale, ****ty bread, but because other people truly believe that such an act is truly a communion with Christ, rather than sharing some crappy bread, I do not feel that I can partake in that particular ritual honorably. So my integrity prevents me from doing so.

    I get **** for it from friends and family all the time, who think I am making some sort of stand against religion by doing so, but in truth I do it out of respect for the gravity that others place upon such rituals despite my own belief that they are pointless and silly.
    I think that's what he's saying. That the oath doesn't need to be swore under God but that the oath should be a promise based on an individuals integrity.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Racer View Post
    Viktyr- I ask only because I am ignorant of such things. Is it against your religious beliefs to say your gods name during this pledge, or say Gods if there are more than one?
    No, it would not be against my beliefs to do so. But the proposed bill does not appear to allow for such a solution.

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I think that's what he's saying. That the oath doesn't need to be swore under God but that the oath should be a promise based on an individuals integrity.
    The swearing of an oath itself does that without any additional language needed.
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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The swearing of an oath itself does that without any additional language needed.
    No I agree. Asking an atheist to swear under God is just dumb period. From the idea of rights to the idea that supposedly the oath holds weight for a person that is swearing to a God they don't believe in? It's just dumb all around but I agree. Why not just do "I solemnly swear blah blah"
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Viktyr, question for you (this is a bit off-topic, but you said what your religion was, and I think it's what I think it is) anyhow, I'm performing selections from Wagner's Ring cycle, which through 4 operas (16 hours) tells the stories of Odin, the Valkryes, Valhalla ect....but really my question to you is, how accurately does Wagner's ring cycle represent the poems of the elder edda?

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    Asking an atheist to swear under God is just dumb period.
    True, but while it's dumb to ask atheists to do it, it's downright immoral to ask someone like Vik to do it, because he would be forced to actively violate his faith in order to swear such an oath.
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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists To Graduate High School



    Awful damn hard to be a pagan and a conservative in this country when our so-called "conservative party" apparently hates you.

    Makes no sense! One of my son's was subject to similar nonsense in the Boy Scouts. He went through all the requirements to be Eagle Scout, but the troop wouldn't give him that rank because he didn't attend church. He then quit the scouts.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists to Graduate

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnson View Post
    Viktyr, question for you (this is a bit off-topic, but you said what your religion was, and I think it's what I think it is) anyhow, I'm performing selections from Wagner's Ring cycle, which through 4 operas (16 hours) tells the stories of Odin, the Valkryes, Valhalla ect....but really my question to you is, how accurately does Wagner's ring cycle represent the poems of the elder edda?
    I don't know. Aside from Ride of the Valkyries, I am only passingly familiar with Wagner.

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