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Thread: Rand Paul tells Christie to stop his temper tantrums and grandstanding [W:53]

  1. #161
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    Re: Rand Paul tells Christie to stop his temper tantrums and grandstanding [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    No, I understood his rant and its weirdness. And that's why it's ironic to hear this moron attack Christie for "ranting" about federal assistance for Hurricane Sandy assistance.
    There's a difference between criticizing someone for being ignorant of a bill (which Christie was) and attacking policies that you are educated about (which Paul is about the EPA's policies)
    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Bottomline is, regulation has benefits and burdens. It addresses problems (like wasting water and higher water costs). Rand and the tea party occupation forces only talk about the burdens of regulation in a vaccuum. That's why he and other conservatives are intellectually bankrupt.
    Agreed. There are benefits and burdens. Paul and some Tea Partiers understand this. However, when the burden outweighs the benefit, you will get push back about it. For instance, regulating the amount of water in a toilet does nothing to minimize water being used because it usually results in a person having to flush more than once when taking care of business. You lose the benefit when this happens. In addition, a new cost of having to have a plumber come out and fix your toilet frequently is passed on to the consumer. Passing regulations like this one are what is done in a vaccuum, not the fight against it. The fight against it sources from people that feel the burden of the regulation monetarily and the burden that is passed on to the market. It seems like the EPA has no concern for the effect their regulation has on the free market and passes their regulations "in a vaccuum".
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Rand Paul tells Christie to stop his temper tantrums and grandstanding [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Which party tried to hold up Hurricane Sandy relief spending? Come on, you can say it!

    Even a partisan like Chris Christie had to admit that the tea party occupation forces are toxic slime.
    I just can't take you seriously as a poster

    So you're in favor of a pork filled bill with crony handouts and massive spending disguised as "Relief"

    Good to know

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    Re: Rand Paul tells Christie to stop his temper tantrums and grandstanding [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    I just can't take you seriously as a poster

    So you're in favor of a pork filled bill with crony handouts and massive spending disguised as "Relief"

    Good to know
    We have liftoff: another conservative against disaster relief.

    And you wonder why you guys keep losing elections!

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    Re: Rand Paul tells Christie to stop his temper tantrums and grandstanding [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    There's a difference between criticizing someone for being ignorant of a bill (which Christie was) and attacking policies that you are educated about (which Paul is about the EPA's policies)
    As the energy department witness pointed out (after wading through Paul's ridiculous "abortion" meme), there are some fine low flow toilets available at Home Depot. It appears Paul decided to keep his bad 1980s low flow for 30 years on the off chance that he could complain about it at a Senate hearing.

    Agreed. There are benefits and burdens. Paul and some Tea Partiers understand this. However, when the burden outweighs the benefit, you will get push back about it. For instance, regulating the amount of water in a toilet does nothing to minimize water being used because it usually results in a person having to flush more than once when taking care of business. You lose the benefit when this happens. In addition, a new cost of having to have a plumber come out and fix your toilet frequently is passed on to the consumer. Passing regulations like this one are what is done in a vaccuum, not the fight against it. The fight against it sources from people that feel the burden of the regulation monetarily and the burden that is passed on to the market. It seems like the EPA has no concern for the effect their regulation has on the free market and passes their regulations "in a vaccuum".
    Pssst: they don't understand that there are benefits and burdens since they don't attack the prudence of particular regulations; they attack the principle of regulating. Thus their position is intellectually dishonest.

    But nice try to salvage the lunacy that is conservatism.

    (by the way, the EPA, like all agencies, has a process for proposing regulations, evaluating the cost and benefits, taking public comments; so your cartoon version -- which is Paul's -- of a deranged EPA imposing low flow toilets for the hell of it is counterfactual).

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    Re: Rand Paul tells Christie to stop his temper tantrums and grandstanding [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    We have liftoff: another conservative against disaster relief.

    And you wonder why you guys keep losing elections!
    OMG I'm against disaster relief!

    How dare anyone be against massive pork and fraud disguised as "disaster relief"! If you're against massive fraud and pork YOU ARE AGAINST DISASTER RELIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  6. #166
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    Re: Rand Paul tells Christie to stop his temper tantrums and grandstanding [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    As the energy department witness pointed out (after wading through Paul's ridiculous "abortion" meme), there are some fine low flow toilets available at Home Depot. It appears Paul decided to keep his bad 1980s low flow for 30 years on the off chance that he could complain about it at a Senate hearing.
    So now we have to buy new toilets all of the time to keep up with regulations? More cost passed on to the consumer that the EPA could care less about. My point is proven.
    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Pssst: they don't understand that there are benefits and burdens since they don't attack the prudence of particular regulations; they attack the principle of regulating. Thus their position is intellectually dishonest.
    When regulations have reached the point of "lunacy" of course the principal is attacked. Liberals and progressives believe that regulations occur in a "vaccuum" as you like to say with no effect on the market. That is ludicrous and you know it.

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    (by the way, the EPA, like all agencies, has a process for proposing regulations, evaluating the cost and benefits, taking public comments; so your cartoon version -- which is Paul's -- of a deranged EPA imposing low flow toilets for the hell of it is counterfactual).
    Congress passes the laws that govern the United States, but Congress has also authorized EPA and other federal agencies to help put those laws into effect by creating and enforcing regulations.
    Basics of the Regulatory Process | Laws and Regulations | US EPA
    So, we have 2 options.
    A) We abolish the EPA. Yeah right. Even if the GOP controlled the House, Senate, and Presidency, I don't think that would happen. Nor should it.
    B) Dems and sometimes the GOP await a time where they either have the majority and the Presidency or a time where the Dems/GOP has a bill they want passed extremely bad and attach a objective for the environment. Then, the EPA goes about enforcing said objective. They do so by regulating. However, when writing regulations the urgency to meet the new objective far outweighs the effect on the market place, consumer, etc. It's a law after all. They have to follow it. So the EPA sets ridiculous regulations and very rarely back tracks on them because that's not their job. They were given an objective to meet. Screw everything else. That's the Congress's worry. But getting Congress to repeal the objective is also not going to happen. Heck, we can't even meet the middle on the "fiscal cliff", much less an environmental regulation. The entire system's broken and we both know it. Someone fighting against it should be no surprise.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Rand Paul tells Christie to stop his temper tantrums and grandstanding [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    OMG I'm against disaster relief!

    How dare anyone be against massive pork and fraud disguised as "disaster relief"! If you're against massive fraud and pork YOU ARE AGAINST DISASTER RELIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And this is why conservative are going extinct. Pretending disaster relief is pork. Keep it up -- you make my day.

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    Re: Rand Paul tells Christie to stop his temper tantrums and grandstanding [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    So now we have to buy new toilets all of the time to keep up with regulations? More cost passed on to the consumer that the EPA could care less about. My point is proven.
    Yep, and water saved, reducing water costs. See benefits and burdens. Like I said you only pretend to understand. You actually think like Paul that EPA officials sat around and came up with low flow toilets for no reason at all.

    And that's why nobody takes conservatism seriously.

    When regulations have reached the point of "lunacy" of course the principal is attacked. Liberals and progressives believe that regulations occur in a "vaccuum" as you like to say with no effect on the market. That is ludicrous and you know it.
    False premise. Typical of tea baggery. We have one of the best processes in the world for making regulations, the most transparent, with the most public input. You just don't like regulations and don't like the modern world that requires it. You can fess up and stop the pretense.

    Congress passes the laws that govern the United States, but Congress has also authorized EPA and other federal agencies to help put those laws into effect by creating and enforcing regulations.
    Basics of the Regulatory Process | Laws and Regulations | US EPA
    So, we have 2 options.
    A) We abolish the EPA. Yeah right. Even if the GOP controlled the House, Senate, and Presidency, I don't think that would happen. Nor should it.
    B) Dems and sometimes the GOP await a time where they either have the majority and the Presidency or a time where the Dems/GOP has a bill they want passed extremely bad and attach a objective for the environment. Then, the EPA goes about enforcing said objective. They do so by regulating. However, when writing regulations the urgency to meet the new objective far outweighs the effect on the market place, consumer, etc. It's a law after all. They have to follow it. So the EPA sets ridiculous regulations and very rarely back tracks on them because that's not their job. They were given an objective to meet. Screw everything else. That's the Congress's worry. But getting Congress to repeal the objective is also not going to happen. Heck, we can't even meet the middle on the "fiscal cliff", much less an environmental regulation. The entire system's broken and we both know it. Someone fighting against it should be no surprise.
    A false narrative with a false premise. There is a third option: Congress can pass a law tomorrow restricting the regulatory procedure. In fact Congress does that all the time. Congress barred NIH from researching the causes of gun deaths for instance. Congress prescribed that under the Endangered Species Act, economic costs to local communities would have to be taken into consideration (a dumb law).

    Why are you posting this counterfactual nonsense?

  9. #169
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    Re: Rand Paul tells Christie to stop his temper tantrums and grandstanding [W:53]

    Just to be clear, I removed your adolescent name calling and rhetoric from my post.
    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Yep, and water saved, reducing water costs. See benefits and burdens. Like I said you only pretend to understand. You actually think like Paul that EPA officials sat around and came up with low flow toilets for no reason at all.
    That's the point, you don't save water. When you flush more due to weak flow and a lack of water, you use more making up for it with multiple flushes. So it all equals out anyway. Add that to the increased costs of having to constantly purchase products that perform despite the regulations placed upon them and it ends up costing more. Not to mention the fact that if you own an older home, your plumbing isn't equipped for the higher concentration of waste.
    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    False premise. We have one of the best processes in the world for making regulations, the most transparent, with the most public input. You just don't like regulations and don't like the modern world that requires it.
    Most public input huh? When was the last time you voted for a member of the EPA? I'm all for sensible regulations. Even ones that may go against my principles of small gov't and low regulation. But it has to be worth it. It can't be willy nilly regulation with what seems to be little to no investigation into the impact it has upon citizens. The fact of the matter is that the progressive way of doing things is doing nothing to this country but putting it further into debt, reducing its ability to bring itself out of debt, and doing nothing that would remotely signify that progressives could give a crap about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    A false narrative with a false premise. There is a third option: Congress can pass a law tomorrow restricting the regulatory procedure. In fact Congress does that all the time. Congress barred NIH from researching the causes of gun deaths for instance. Congress prescribed that under the Endangered Species Act, economic costs to local communities would have to be taken into consideration (a dumb law).
    So bringing up 2 instances (one of which has nothing to do with the EPA) means "it happens all the time"? Where exactly did you get your concept of "all the time"? Your statement that it's a dumb law to have to take into consideration the economic costs of EPA regulations further reveals your true feelings on the matter and your lack of understanding of the effects something as simply as saying a bird is endangered has on citizens.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Rand Paul tells Christie to stop his temper tantrums and grandstanding [W:53]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Just to be clear, I removed your adolescent name calling and rhetoric from my post.

    That's the point, you don't save water. When you flush more due to weak flow and a lack of water, you use more making up for it with multiple flushes. So it all equals out anyway. Add that to the increased costs of having to constantly purchase products that perform despite the regulations placed upon them and it ends up costing more. Not to mention the fact that if you own an older home, your plumbing isn't equipped for the higher concentration of waste.
    Science has proven that low-flo toilets save water, though I realize that's not good enough for the magical thinking of rightwingers or those whose droppings are far above avg. Or those, who like Rand Paul, don't know how to shop for a toilet

    Most public input huh? When was the last time you voted for a member of the EPA? I'm all for sensible regulations. Even ones that may go against my principles of small gov't and low regulation. But it has to be worth it. It can't be willy nilly regulation with what seems to be little to no investigation into the impact it has upon citizens. The fact of the matter is that the progressive way of doing things is doing nothing to this country but putting it further into debt, reducing its ability to bring itself out of debt, and doing nothing that would remotely signify that progressives could give a crap about it.
    Every year we vote for the people who appoint and approve of those members of the EPA

    So bringing up 2 instances (one of which has nothing to do with the EPA) means "it happens all the time"? Where exactly did you get your concept of "all the time"? Your statement that it's a dumb law to have to take into consideration the economic costs of EPA regulations further reveals your true feelings on the matter and your lack of understanding of the effects something as simply as saying a bird is endangered has on citizens.
    So now you don't understand the figure of speech "all the time"??
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