• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

I understand that a liberal will not see the difference between a conservative who happens to be a Republican and the establishment Republican who is little better than a democrat who wants the state to have control but at a slower rate.

If we want to have more jobs we need to eliminate many, possibly most of the 90,000 federal regulations that constrain our freedoms. We need to roll back every facet of government. Then we will have as many jobs as we can fill.

I'm neither a Republican or a Democrat and there are no true Conservatives anymore, it's an extinct breed. I can agree that we need to shrink the Gov. But give me 5 of these regs that you would like to do away with and show me how getting rid of them would create jobs?
 
Then you have no idea what anarchy is. Nor freedom either.

There is shame in this.

I like having the company upstream not being able to dump toxic crap into the creek my kids play in. There is no shame in that.
 
I'm neither a Republican or a Democrat and there are no true Conservatives anymore, it's an extinct breed. I can agree that we need to shrink the Gov. But give me 5 of these regs that you would like to do away with and show me how getting rid of them would create jobs?
I choose not to play your silly game. You take any 5,000 and eliminate them. I recommend starting with the most current and moving backward in time eliminating them until we have full employment.

We need to massively reduce the scope of government involvement in our lives. Why can't I buy any lightbulb I choose? Why can't I buy a toilet that actually flushes? Why does some ninny come to tell me I must have a fence so children who do not live here will not fall in a place they are unlikely to play? Why can't I buy a two ton car anymore? Why does the government have any say over how many miles my car must go on a gallon of gasoline?
 
I like having the company upstream not being able to dump toxic crap into the creek my kids play in. There is no shame in that.

If they offend you then sue them. Rich nations do a better job of cleaning up than poor nations. This sounds like a state or local problem. It is not a federal one unless you want to make the general case where water moves across state boundaries.
 
I choose not to play your silly game. You take any 5,000 and eliminate them. I recommend starting with the most current and moving backward in time eliminating them until we have full employment.

We need to massively reduce the scope of government involvement in our lives. Why can't I buy any lightbulb I choose? Why can't I buy a toilet that actually flushes? Why does some ninny come to tell me I must have a fence so children who do not live here will not fall in a place they are unlikely to play? Why can't I buy a two ton car anymore? Why does the government have any say over how many miles my car must go on a gallon of gasoline?

I didn't think you'd be able to answer the question, most people that throw out that statement can't. Why don't you have a toilet that flushes, maybe you need to call a plumber. I had one a couple months ago that was worn out, I went to Lowes and bought a new one. The only real difference is the new one uses less water but still flushes just fine. I don't know why you want a 2 ton car, but they are still available. What light bulbs are you talking about. You can go to the dollar store and buy them for .25 each. You're the type of person that just wants grip and play victim.
 
I didn't think you'd be able to answer the question, most people that throw out that statement can't. Why don't you have a toilet that flushes, maybe you need to call a plumber. I had one a couple months ago that was worn out, I went to Lowes and bought a new one. The only real difference is the new one uses less water but still flushes just fine. I don't know why you want a 2 ton car, but they are still available. What light bulbs are you talking about. You can go to the dollar store and buy them for .25 each. You're the type of person that just wants grip and play victim.
Okay. You are one of those. Sometimes posters have to be fired. You are fired.
 
Okay. You are one of those. Sometimes posters have to be fired. You are fired.

It's not my fault that you can't back up statements you make. You made statements, I asked you questions about your statements and you can't or won't stand behind them.
 
It's not my fault that you can't back up statements you make. You made statements, I asked you questions about your statements and you can't or won't stand behind them.
You continue to be one of those. Do not be a drone. Drones are boring. Did I not say you are fired?

If you say something interesting or substantive I will respond. Otherwise not.
 
You continue to be one of those. Do not be a drone. Drones are boring. Did I not say you are fired?

If you say something interesting or substantive I will respond. Otherwise not.

So basically your saying that you don't like to be asked questions about statements you make because you just can't stand behind them.
 
If they offend you then sue them. Rich nations do a better job of cleaning up than poor nations. This sounds like a state or local problem. It is not a federal one unless you want to make the general case where water moves across state boundaries.

I would just as soon save myself the trouble and St. Jude's the patients.
 
But couldn't most of the blame be put on the people that hire these illegals. They don't have to pay taxes on these employees, they can pay them under the table next to nothing. Have you ever seen a house with 4 or 5 families of illegals living in it and they still manage to get food stamps and go to the ER at our expense.
Blame? What blame? Those folks risk everything to come here and bust their ass to succeed. I'd rather keep all 30 million of them and send those to weak, lazy or entitled from this country to whatever country those other folks came from. **** them. Yes...they bust their ass. Yes...sometimes they live several people to a house. Yes...they even go without (gasp) internet, cable, cellphones, etc.
 
Goshin must be somewhat unstable... you might want to rethink his position as "moderator". Perhaps banning him altogether.

This is a complete nonsense response. Try following the discussion for once so you know what's being discussed.
 
However there is a world of difference in asking t of someone that is at risk vs asking it of patients on a routine basis or of querying their kids.
And is saying that it's not prohibited for Drs to ask the question the same thing as saying that Drs should ask the question routinely?
AFAICT, the two are not the same.
Also afaict, there's no indication that Drs have been asked to ask the question routinely.
Is there some language in the EO which says that Drs are required to ask us about our firearms any more often than they have in the past 237 years?

Or...do you support them also inquiring about every other potential dangerous action and behavior?
I suupoert Drs being free to make the decision however they see fit.
They have been able to ask the question my entire life. In all these years, I have never been asked that question. So, I think Drs are capable of handling the ability to ask people about their firearms responsibly.
Is there some reason why you think Drs will suddenly become irresponsible busybodies just because Obama verbalized an aspect of the status quo?

Doctors roles are not to query patients, teach patients about the eeeeevils of firearms, or act as a grand inquisitor. Working as closely with doctors as I do I can tell you that most WON'T.
I know. We have centuries of history of living with Drs who have been allowed to ask us about firearms.

Before a week ago, no one seemed to notice our centuries of living with this incredible threat, (to w/e the hell it's a threat to), to complain about it.
I don't think it has been that big of a deal--at least not until Obama said aloud that Drs have this ability.
Then this hysteria broke out.

They MAY have their intern or administrative secretary give community health surveys.
FYI, Obamacare expressly prohibits the govt collecting that sort of data. So even if your Dr asks you about it, the govt doesn't get to know. That proscription on the govt collecting the data is the reason for the clarification, afaict.
 
Other tyrants have used the children for secret police. Why shouldn't ours?
And you think that having a law which explicitly prohibits the govt from collecting this sort of data is a sign that the govt is going to collect this sort of data?

Isn't there some point, where you go, "Whoah! I am getting a little paranoid,"?

People who're trying to sell you outrage shouldn't be trusted anymore than any other advertiser.
 
HOWEVER, since my understanding is that these pediatricians have a part of their exams these days where they ask the parent to step out of the room and ask the child several questions, this could be a problem.

People seriously do this? I would never leave my kid alone in a room with the doctor. Who knows what's going to happen.
 
 Clarify that no federal law prevents health care providers from warning law enforcement authorities about threats of violence: Doctors and other mental health professionals play an important role in protecting the safety of their patients and the broader community by reporting direct and credible threats of violence to the authorities. But there is public confusion about whether federal law prohibits such reports about threats of violence. The Department of Health and Human Services is issuing a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits these reports in any way.


 Protect the rights of health care providers to talk to their patients about gun safety: Doctors and other health care providers also need to be able to ask about firearms in their patients’ homes and safe storage of those firearms, especially if their patients show signs of certain mental illnesses or if they have a young child or mentally ill family member at home. Some have incorrectly claimed that language in the Affordable Care Act prohibits doctors from asking their patients about guns and gun safety. Medical groups also continue to fight against state laws attempting to ban doctors from asking these questions. The Administration will issue guidance clarifying that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit or otherwise regulate communication between doctors and patients, including about firearms.

I don't really get what the big deal is here. It looks like this isn't changing any laws, just clarifying how things work.

And doctors already do ask about whether you own guns. I've been asked when I went to see the doctor, and I simply declined to answer. It was fine, no problems at all.

My wife sees a psychiatrist for depression and grief counseling, and the fact that we own guns was brought up in their first session, because it's relevant to what she's being treated for.
 
People seriously do this? I would never leave my kid alone in a room with the doctor. Who knows what's going to happen.
I have yet to see this first hand. Never been asked to leave the room during my kids' Dr visits.

Also, most people are not a threat to your kids. More than 99%+ of the population are not the kind of folks who will try and harm your kid the moment your back is turned.
 
I have yet to see this first hand. Never been asked to leave the room during my kids' Dr visits.

That's good to know.

Also, most people are not a threat to your kids. More than 99%+ of the population are not the kind of folks who will try and harm your kid the moment your back is turned.

Well, it's theoretical at the moment, I don't actually have kids yet. I do get where you're coming from though. While most people wouldn't hurt a kid, you can't tell the good ones from the bad ones is the problem. Plus I can't really see a valid reason for asking the parent to leave the room. It would be different if my kid was a teenager and needed to talk to the doctor about something embarrassing.
 
This is a complete nonsense response. Try following the discussion for once so you know what's being discussed.

Not nonsense... Goshin was asked... now... is he unstable?
 
No...of course. Because it says what you want it to say. You ignore the factual reality that WOMEN in this country do NOT use guns as a majority means of committing suicide and you ignore the fact that 5X as many Japanese commit suicide ALL without guns, because you desperately cling to the 'facts' that support your ideology. Its...kinda sad.

Neither of those facts show that the numbers would be the same if you introduced guns in to the picture. They are completely unrelated to the discussion. As I have said before, I am not arguing that it's impossible to commit suicide without guns. That would be silly. I am arguing that if you account for all other factors, people with guns at home are much more successful at killing themselves. That Japan has alot more suicides does not negate this point, because you have no evidence that the numbers wouldn't be even higher with guns available. If you can provide some evidence, then please do so. Otherwise you are just giving your opinion.

Also, you keep talking about how I am ignoring your facts. I am dismissing your facts because they are not related to the discussion. You are outright ignoring my study however shows that you won't accept anything, even accurate studies by non-partisan sources, that go against your opinion.
 
Neither of those facts show that the numbers would be the same if you introduced guns in to the picture. They are completely unrelated to the discussion. As I have said before, I am not arguing that it's impossible to commit suicide without guns. That would be silly. I am arguing that if you account for all other factors, people with guns at home are much more successful at killing themselves. That Japan has alot more suicides does not negate this point, because you have no evidence that the numbers wouldn't be even higher with guns available. If you can provide some evidence, then please do so. Otherwise you are just giving your opinion.

Also, you keep talking about how I am ignoring your facts. I am dismissing your facts because they are not related to the discussion. You are outright ignoring my study however shows that you won't accept anything, even accurate studies by non-partisan sources, that go against your opinion.
That completely ignores the psychological reality that women HAVE access to firearms but are less likely to use them. It also ignores the factual reality that the Japanese DEMONSTRATE means is simply NOT RELEVANT. Your position is the same mindless position advanced by those that ignore trends on violence and blame suicide...or violent crime...on 'the evil guns'.

When people are committed to kill themselves they do. By any means necessary. Japan PROVES how foolish the anti-gun argument is.
 
Well, it's theoretical at the moment, I don't actually have kids yet. I do get where you're coming from though. While most people wouldn't hurt a kid, you can't tell the good ones from the bad ones is the problem. Plus I can't really see a valid reason for asking the parent to leave the room. It would be different if my kid was a teenager and needed to talk to the doctor about something embarrassing.
There're certain people which it is just necessary that you trust them. The kids' Dr is one. If you can't trust your kids' Dr to be alone with the kid for a few minutes, then you really needs a new Dr.
Same with their teachers, babysitters, parents of the kids' friends, etc.
You just physically can't be with them all the time. So you have to decide to trust some other people in the world with the well-being of your kid from time to time. Almost all the time, it's okay. It's just when it's not okay, the stories make big impacts on us.
 
Japan PROVES how foolish the anti-gun argument is.
And the "anti-gun" argument is that "If a Dr's professional opinion is that it's prudent to do so, he should ask about a patient's access to firearms?"

Is there some reason why we want to micromanage Drs? Have they abused their ability to ask us about our firearms over the last couple of centuries? What harm has come of it?
 
People seriously do this? I would never leave my kid alone in a room with the doctor. Who knows what's going to happen.

Unfortunately many people do. This friend of mine was that naive. He isn't anymore. He trusted that doctor and now he knows better. I've never trusted most members of the medical profession and this makes me trust them even less.
 
Back
Top Bottom