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Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

This country has had a fork stuck in it. Romney was right... 47% of the nation are parasites, and it's tough to beat them because they are sucking on the government teat.

The socialist knew what they were doing... winning power by making people dependent, add the fact they have a propaganda machine that would make Goebbels proud, and we have 8-years of massive incompetence at the helm... and massive destruction.

Parasite Nation will wake up one day (as the Greeks have been FORCED to do), but then it'll be too late... their government issued diapers will be full of "it", and there won't be anyone at Comedy Central DC to clean up their mess for them. They'll be farked, as will generations of Americans after we're gone.

That's our legacy... from FDR to today... the destruction of America by socialism.

Who do you consider is in this 47% group that don't pay taxes? Are you counting that 80 year old couple that lives on SS, or the Disabled Vet that lives on Disability, how about that Cancer patient that gets disability because they can not work? It's the Tax Code that don't require these people to pay taxes.

Why didn't you Republicans change theses things when you were in charge of the WH, the Senate, and Congress or was it not a problem then.
 
There's nothing really new about this. If a patient is a significant risk to themselves or others, this is an appropriate question. Depending on the seriousness of the threat and the patient's response, will govern the health care provider's reaction.

However, if there is no risk of harm, there is no reason to ask the question.

Goshin must be somewhat unstable... you might want to rethink his position as "moderator". Perhaps banning him altogether.
 
Who do you consider is in this 47% group that don't pay taxes? Are you counting that 80 year old couple that lives on SS, or the Disabled Vet that lives on Disability, how about that Cancer patient that gets disability because they can not work? It's the Tax Code that don't require these people to pay taxes.

Why didn't you Republicans change theses things when you were in charge of the WH, the Senate, and Congress or was it not a problem then.

He said Romney was right, so yes, because those groups are in the 47% of folks who paid no federal income taxes in 2010. (Note: not the same thing as paying no taxes. Most are retired or did pay payroll taxes)

This list also includes deployed combat troops. Since Zimmer agreed with Romney, this means that Zimmer believed DEPLOYED COMBAT TROOPS can never be convinced to take responsibilitu for themselves. I find Zimmers opinion to be appaling.
 
Sorry, your point is incorrect. As the study says, you are much more likely to kill yourself with a gun at home. You can keep saying otherwise, but to be honest, I don't trust you as much as a trust this study and the others that come to the same conclusion. For obvious reasons.
No...of course. Because it says what you want it to say. You ignore the factual reality that WOMEN in this country do NOT use guns as a majority means of committing suicide and you ignore the fact that 5X as many Japanese commit suicide ALL without guns, because you desperately cling to the 'facts' that support your ideology. Its...kinda sad.
 
No...of course. Because it says what you want it to say. You ignore the factual reality that WOMEN in this country do NOT use guns as a majority means of committing suicide and you ignore the fact that 5X as many Japanese commit suicide ALL without guns, because you desperately cling to the 'facts' that support your ideology. Its...kinda sad.

Where are you getting these facts about women?

What does Japan's suicides have to do with the United States?
 
He said Romney was right, so yes, because those groups are in the 47% of folks who paid no federal income taxes in 2010. (Note: not the same thing as paying no taxes. Most are retired or did pay payroll taxes)

This list also includes deployed combat troops. Since Zimmer agreed with Romney, this means that Zimmer believed DEPLOYED COMBAT TROOPS can never be convinced to take responsibilitu for themselves. I find Zimmers opinion to be appaling.

You're right, they do pay sales tax, I was talking about income tax, just didn't make the distinction. i was hoping that Zimmer would answer but i guess he can't back up what he say's.
 
Where are you getting these facts about women?

What does Japan's suicides have to do with the United States?
It has EVERYTHING to do with SUICIDE and the fact that suicidal people COMMIT suicide by whatever means they can. The mindless need to rush to blame suicides on guns is as stupid as the rush to blame the actions of violent thugs on guns and about as effective. As for the statistics...they are easy to find. Women are more likely to poison themselves, hang themselves or OD. In Japan the methodology ranges from OG, to hanging, to stabbing themselves to creating lethal chemical clouds.

NIMH · Suicide in the U.S.: Statistics and Prevention
 
What bothers me about this is who gets to decide if the patient is unfit? Is that the doctor's call, or is it some administration czar who flags every questionaire with a check in the wrong box. For instance, if I go to my doctor to complain about the knots I get in my back that are likely stress related (hey, I'm a father, a husband and a business owner) and that I had seen a counselor about learning to manage stress better, The form may indicate (depending on interpretation and who is doing the interpreting) that I was stressed and had received psychiatric treatment. Does that make me unfit to own a firearm? Well, that depends on who you ask. And that's the problem. Set the standards high enough and nearly everybody could be deemed a hazard. The left can say "we are not out to take away your guns" as many times and as often as they like, it doesn't change the fact that several of the higher ups on the left (Feinstein for instance) would take them all if they had the chance and have said as much publicly. I've seen veterans faced with this, the questionaire is already used by the VA and any mention of PSTD or depression or use of stabilizing drugs is an immediate flag. A "Yes" in this column will result in a CCW permit being denied. As for outright confiscation, it's only a matter of time. All they have to do is convince the low information voters that "it's for the children" and they can't hand over their Constitution rights fast enough.
 
MD's are now law enforcement.

I can't wait until our medical records are public... of course... for the good of the nation.

It's not telling them to be cops, but it is telling them to do what they're already supposed to do, and to overstep their boundaries.

the article said:
 Clarify that no federal law prevents health care providers from warning law enforcement authorities about threats of violence: Doctors and other mental health professionals play an important role in protecting the safety of their patients and the broader community by reporting direct and credible threats of violence to the authorities. But there is public confusion about whether federal law prohibits such reports about threats of violence. The Department of Health and Human Services is issuing a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits these reports in any way
.
There is no confusion on the borders of doctor-patient privilege, it's clearly stated that credible threats of violence or harm to self or others is to be immediately reported. whenever I had to speak to a shrink for an evaluation, they made that very clear. I believe they're obligated to tell the patient as well, since they always told me, they always told the other people I worked with. There's no excuse for any doctor to fail to report a clear and blatant threat. However, no dumbass is going to straight up tell their doctor that they want to take an AR-15 into a school/mall/theater/etc and kill a **** ton of people.

 Protect the rights of health care providers to talk to their patients about gun safety: Doctors and other health care providers also need to be able to ask about firearms in their patients’ homes and safe storage of those firearms, especially if their patients show signs of certain mental illnesses or if they have a young child or mentally ill family member at home. Some have incorrectly claimed that language in the Affordable Care Act prohibits doctors from asking their patients about guns and gun safety. Medical groups also continue to fight against state laws attempting to ban doctors from asking these questions. The Administration will issue guidance clarifying that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit or otherwise regulate communication between doctors and patients, including about firearms.

This is clearly an over-step of boundaries. Unless an individual doctor is actually qualified to instruct firearm safety. Let's be honest here, when this item says "doctor", it really means psychiatrists and mental health therapists, people whom I'd suspect have next to no actual knowledge of firearms. Hell, I never met a doctor outside of Army medics that ever even owned a firearm. So, these guys are now going to waste my time with bull**** questions I'm not going to answer truthfully if I even go back to a medical facility, just because .000001% of the population ****ed up and went bitchcakes crazy with a firearm.

If the concern is gun safety, then guess what? Safety tips, and instructions are readily given by anyone who is trained in the handling and operation of firearms, whether professionally, or otherwise, totally free of cost.
 
Not so. If a pediatrician were to find that a child lives in a home where a gun is not locked in a safe, he could easily decide that child is at risk and report it (and some would say it would be their moral obligation to do so). At least...that is the opinion of the American Academy of Pediatrics, and would also fit within CPS mandatory reporting guidelines for unsafe conditions in the home, and a report of neglect.
Since Drs have been able to ask you about firearms for centuries now, what exactly has changed now that Obama has pointed out that Drs can ask about firearms?
I am not seeing the difference between the day before Obama said that Drs can ask about firearms and the day after Obama said Drs can ask about firearms.

Obamacare specifically prohibits the govt from collecting data on firearm ownership etc.
 
What bothers me about this is who gets to decide if the patient is unfit? Is that the doctor's call, or is it some administration czar who flags every questionaire with a check in the wrong box. For instance, if I go to my doctor to complain about the knots I get in my back that are likely stress related (hey, I'm a father, a husband and a business owner) and that I had seen a counselor about learning to manage stress better, The form may indicate (depending on interpretation and who is doing the interpreting) that I was stressed and had received psychiatric treatment. Does that make me unfit to own a firearm? Well, that depends on who you ask. And that's the problem. Set the standards high enough and nearly everybody could be deemed a hazard. The left can say "we are not out to take away your guns" as many times and as often as they like, it doesn't change the fact that several of the higher ups on the left (Feinstein for instance) would take them all if they had the chance and have said as much publicly. I've seen veterans faced with this, the questionaire is already used by the VA and any mention of PSTD or depression or use of stabilizing drugs is an immediate flag. A "Yes" in this column will result in a CCW permit being denied. As for outright confiscation, it's only a matter of time. All they have to do is convince the low information voters that "it's for the children" and they can't hand over their Constitution rights fast enough.

I keep hearing about this form. Where can I see a copy of it. I've never seen my Dr use one nor have I ever been asked if i own a gun. I was there yesterday for some flu meds and the only things he asked was how long have I been coughing and things like that, nothing about guns
 
I keep hearing about this form. Where can I see a copy of it. I've never seen my Dr use one nor have I ever been asked if i own a gun. I was there yesterday for some flu meds and the only things he asked was how long have I been coughing and things like that, nothing about guns

I haven't seen it either. Are you a veteran? I have quite a few friends and acquaintances who are and I hear about it often. None of them have said they were required to answer the question, but they are certainly annoyed enough by it to bring it up in conversation, and not together. Some of these guys don't know each other. But when you have veterans who served their country by their own choice (again not all of them, 3 of the guys who have told me about this are Vietnam veterans, I would assume at least some of them were drafted) talking about how poorly they are treated (by the system, not the doctors or nurses necessarily) there isn't much reason to doubt them. Two of the Vietnam guys as it turns out have the same favorite nurse. She is a middle aged black woman who takes no crap and sets them straight when they need it, they seem to respect that.
 
I haven't seen it either. Are you a veteran? I have quite a few friends and acquaintances who are and I hear about it often. None of them have said they were required to answer the question, but they are certainly annoyed enough by it to bring it up in conversation, and not together. Some of these guys don't know each other. But when you have veterans who served their country by their own choice (again not all of them, 3 of the guys who have told me about this are Vietnam veterans, I would assume at least some of them were drafted) talking about how poorly they are treated (by the system, not the doctors or nurses necessarily) there isn't much reason to doubt them. Two of the Vietnam guys as it turns out have the same favorite nurse. She is a middle aged black woman who takes no crap and sets them straight when they need it, they seem to respect that.

I retired for the U.S.Navy in 1996. Even then I didn't see any kind of form that asked about owning guns.
 
Since Drs have been able to ask you about firearms for centuries now, what exactly has changed now that Obama has pointed out that Drs can ask about firearms?
I am not seeing the difference between the day before Obama said that Drs can ask about firearms and the day after Obama said Drs can ask about firearms.

Obamacare specifically prohibits the govt from collecting data on firearm ownership etc.

Doctors can do and SHOULD make inquiries in patients that have expressed extremes in depression or suicidal ideation. Said so on my very first post on his thread. However there is a world of difference in asking t of someone that is at risk vs asking it of patients on a routine basis or of querying their kids. Or...do you support them also inquiring about every other potential dangerous action and behavior?

Doctors roles are not to query patients, teach patients about the eeeeevils of firearms, or act as a grand inquisitor. Working as closely with doctors as I do I can tell you that most WON'T. They MAY have their intern or administrative secretary give community health surveys. Then you have a 19 year old college student lecturing you about get it and driving, or eating junk food, or buying your kid sugared cereal or McDonalds.

Not their role.
 
No, they shouldn't just ask--they should report them to somebody. Let's create new police forces...the nutrition police, the exercise police, the _____ police. Oh, and train the kids to snitch on their parents too.
Other tyrants have used the children for secret police. Why shouldn't ours?
 
Who do you consider is in this 47% group that don't pay taxes? Are you counting that 80 year old couple that lives on SS, or the Disabled Vet that lives on Disability, how about that Cancer patient that gets disability because they can not work? It's the Tax Code that don't require these people to pay taxes.

Why didn't you Republicans change theses things when you were in charge of the WH, the Senate, and Congress or was it not a problem then.
Good point. President Bush did the nation no favors by removing people from the tax rolls. But then, he was not a conservative, he like his father, was an establishment Republican. The Congress, consisting of a Senate and a House of Representatives, was intended to make it difficult to pass damaging legislation. Incremental changes over the years have ruined the future for the generations to come.

Your four people above get a pass. Now get the other fifty million off welfare and back into the work force. I grow tired of supporting all of the slackers.
 
He said Romney was right, so yes, because those groups are in the 47% of folks who paid no federal income taxes in 2010. (Note: not the same thing as paying no taxes. Most are retired or did pay payroll taxes)

This list also includes deployed combat troops. Since Zimmer agreed with Romney, this means that Zimmer believed DEPLOYED COMBAT TROOPS can never be convinced to take responsibilitu for themselves. I find Zimmers opinion to be appaling.
What did Romney actually say?

Did he not say that 47% of the people will vote for Obama no matter what? Was he not right?
 
What did Romney actually say?

Did he not say that 47% of the people will vote for Obama no matter what? Was he not right?

The number was accurate. What was appalling was the insinuation that deployed combat troops "can't be convinced to take responsibility for themselves." Do you think that? Do you think people who pay no federal income taxes are leeches on society? Including retired seniors, deployed combat troops, and working Americans who still pay payroll taxes?

Or maybe you think he didn't mean that. Maybe you think using "47%" and the phrase "these are people who pay no income taxes" and the fact that exactly 47% of Americans hadn't paid federal income taxes in a recently-circulating talking point was all a coincidence.
 
The number was accurate. What was appalling was the insinuation that deployed combat troops "can't be convinced to take responsibility for themselves." Do you think that? Do you think people who pay no federal income taxes are leeches on society? Including retired seniors, deployed combat troops, and working Americans who still pay payroll taxes?

Or maybe you think he didn't mean that. Maybe you think using "47%" and the phrase "these are people who pay no income taxes" and the fact that exactly 47% of Americans hadn't paid federal income taxes in a recently-circulating talking point was all a coincidence.
I think if we want to be honest we will agree that he was discussing his strategy for determining where and when to fight. He did say that 47% of the people will vote for Obama no matter what. I cannot recall him saying that deployed troops (most are not combat troops, most are combat support or service support) would not vote for him. Nor seniors. Those are words you and others like you have chosen to put your spin on what he did say.

We both know that about half of Americans are shiftless, lazy and look forward to socialism. About half of Americans are takers. That does not include retired seniors (although some are takers). It does not include the military. They are paying with their service.
 
I keep hearing about this form. Where can I see a copy of it. I've never seen my Dr use one nor have I ever been asked if i own a gun. I was there yesterday for some flu meds and the only things he asked was how long have I been coughing and things like that, nothing about guns

I can certainly understand the posters concerns, and I am thinking he is referring to a DSM. However, based on the contact I have with this area, I think it would be highly unlikely that doctors, or mental health professionals, would identify a patient as a risk unless there was a real reason to be concerned. having counseling for stress management isn't likely to be a trigger. more likely, the doctor might ask some follow up questions relating to how things are going and considering THOSE responses.

that said, I think if a case arises where a tragedy happens and a doctor had not identified the risk, there may be calls to tighten it further. the best bet is to ensure that doctors and health professionals get ongoing professional development to minimize the likelihood of mistakes.
 
Good point. President Bush did the nation no favors by removing people from the tax rolls. But then, he was not a conservative, he like his father, was an establishment Republican. The Congress, consisting of a Senate and a House of Representatives, was intended to make it difficult to pass damaging legislation. Incremental changes over the years have ruined the future for the generations to come.

Your four people above get a pass. Now get the other fifty million off welfare and back into the work force. I grow tired of supporting all of the slackers.

Conservative/Republican they're both in the republican party. There is not a Conservative party just like the Democrats/liberals they're both in the Democratic party.

I'm sure most of those fifty million people would love to find a job. Where would you suggest they find one?
 
Conservative/Republican they're both in the republican party. There is not a Conservative party just like the Democrats/liberals they're both in the Democratic party.

I'm sure most of those fifty million people would love to find a job. Where would you suggest they find one?

Millions of illegal and legal immigrants come here every year and manage to pull of that 'miraculous' feat. Amazing that people can come here with nothing and succeed and millions of Americans somehow can't. Just... Shocking.

Allow as amazing as the fact that people can afford cell phones, internet,cable/satellite, video games, fast food, drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes but can't 'afford' health care.
 
Conservative/Republican they're both in the republican party. There is not a Conservative party just like the Democrats/liberals they're both in the Democratic party.

I'm sure most of those fifty million people would love to find a job. Where would you suggest they find one?
I understand that a liberal will not see the difference between a conservative who happens to be a Republican and the establishment Republican who is little better than a democrat who wants the state to have control but at a slower rate.

If we want to have more jobs we need to eliminate many, possibly most of the 90,000 federal regulations that constrain our freedoms. We need to roll back every facet of government. Then we will have as many jobs as we can fill.
 
Millions of illegal and legal immigrants come here every year and manage to pull of that 'miraculous' feat. Amazing that people can come here with nothing and succeed and millions of Americans somehow can't. Just... Shocking.

Allow as amazing as the fact that people can afford cell phones, internet,cable/satellite, video games, fast food, drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes but can't 'afford' health care.

But couldn't most of the blame be put on the people that hire these illegals. They don't have to pay taxes on these employees, they can pay them under the table next to nothing. Have you ever seen a house with 4 or 5 families of illegals living in it and they still manage to get food stamps and go to the ER at our expense.
 
I understand that a liberal will not see the difference between a conservative who happens to be a Republican and the establishment Republican who is little better than a democrat who wants the state to have control but at a slower rate.

If we want to have more jobs we need to eliminate many, possibly most of the 90,000 federal regulations that constrain our freedoms. We need to roll back every facet of government. Then we will have as many jobs as we can fill.

Sounds like complete anarchy to me........
 
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