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Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

RabidAlpaca said:
Can we get a list of Muddy Creek approved news sources? We wouldn't want you excluding yourself from the conversation.
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Let me guess... "unbiased" sources like huffington, mediamatters and kos. And Michael Moore.
 
zimmer said:
MD's are now law enforcement.

I can't wait until our medical records are public... of course... for the good of the nation.
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There's nothing really new about this. If a patient is a significant risk to themselves or others, this is an appropriate question. Depending on the seriousness of the threat and the patient's response, will govern the health care provider's reaction.

However, if there is no risk of harm, there is no reason to ask the question.
 
zimmer said:
That is not what this is about. Or is Goshin mentally unstable?
This is Obama and his Socialists Little Gun Gestapo.
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Actually, that's EXACTLY what it's about. Reread what you posted. It was all about threats of violence and issues around harm and mental illness. Goshin being asked was inappropriate unless there was cause. There's really nothing new about what is being suggested... except maybe the "young child in the home" thing, which, in that case, is not really appropriate to ask.
 
This was proposed two years ago. It makes as much sense to also have doctors ask the kids if mommie or daddy text while driving, eat while driving, put make-up on while driving. It makes as much sense for doctors to ask if the patient is gay and actively engage in sexual activity or if they are heterosexual and practicing safe sex at all times. It makes as much sense as doctors interrogating children to see if there are any unsafe activities in the home. Medical doctors should be able to interrogate the children to see if the parents or guardians are providing them healthy meals, especially those families on welfare. Med doctors should also ask if the family has or allows for the usage of violent video games.

We should also make sure that we the people have full access to medical records to ensure that the person we are about to sell a car to isn't experiencing or hasn't recently been treated for depression or anxiety. We should be able to check to see if prospective tenants have any type of medical or mental health disorders that might be exclusionary criteria for renting to them (hey...James Holmes turned his apartment into a boobietrap that could have literally killed thousands).

In turn, patients should interrogate doctors on number of prescriptions they write annually, on if they are ****ing their nurse or administrative assistant, what their latest lab and tox screens show, if they smoke or drink, if they are having any type of sexual relationships outside the bonds of marriage, if they get enough sleep, and what medications they themselves might be taking.

Look...its one thing if the person is mentally ill or mentally unstable. We do that now. Its quite another thing to ask by routine or matter of course a mentally healthy individual (whatever that really means) personal questions beyond the scope of a routine medical examination.
 
VanceMack said:
much sense for doctors to ask if the patient is gay and actively engage in sexual activity or if they are heterosexual and practicing safe sex at all times.
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Am not sure why you include these two considering that they are both valid medical questions.
 
zimmer said:
That is not what this is about. Or is Goshin mentally unstable?
This is Obama and his Socialists Little Gun Gestapo.
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No, he's not. I'm just saying that there are some patients that need to be asked this question, and Obama has not mandated the doctors do anything. He is just pointing out that his bill does not stop them from asking, because the NRA has spread misinformation saying that it did. You blaming this on Obama is just your paranoia showing.
 
L0neW0lf said:
Am not sure why you include these two considering that they are both valid medical questions.
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We should ask ALL questions AND make that information publicly available so people can make wise, safe, and healthy choices. You can Im saure see the benefit in having a public database for all individuals. If you decide to date a person you can pull that persons medical history and make sure they arent engaging in practices that might put people at risk.

And while we are at it...ban donut shops. Because...I mean...come on...fried fatty foods and sugar? And also ask the kids if their parents give them sugared cereals...because that stuff has to go. What kind of caring parent would poison their kids.

We have to make a few sacrifices of personal privacy. After all...its for the children...
 
Well I doubt in the 3 minutes the doctor spends with you he is going to ask you about your guns related to your sinus infection. I support the mental illness aspects of reform. It clarifies apparently that a doctor can report people who present a potential danger to others and knowing whether or not they have a gun might be part of that. Doctors are not going to snitch on everybody because they know they could get sued and doctors, in general, are risk adverse which is part of the reason they order 50 million tests to CYA.
 
Arbo said:
They have a duty to report people that are 'unstable' and could cause harm to themselves and/or others. That's it. Doesn't matter if they have crossbows at home or anything.

Healthcare is HEALTHcare, physical and mental. It has nothing to do with doctors asking about weapons at the persons home. And no emotional rant from the left can change that reality.
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I agree, they should report if the person is unstable and could harm someone. We completely agree. BUT, if the person is unstable, or even just going through serious depression, it's not crazy for the doctor to ask, do you have guns, are they locked up properly, if yuo feel the urge to use them on yourself please get a loved one to hold on to them for you etc.

It's ****ing healthcare. You guys are just making a huge problem where none exists.
 
roughdraft274 said:
I agree, they should report if the person is unstable and could harm someone. We completely agree. BUT, if the person is unstable, or even just going through serious depression, it's not crazy for the doctor to ask, do you have guns, are they locked up properly, if yuo feel the urge to use them on yourself please get a loved one to hold on to them for you etc.

It's ****ing healthcare. You guys are just making a huge problem where none exists.
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Yes, it is crazy for a doctor to ask that. Why? Do they ask if you have a baseball bat? If you have a crowbar? Knives? Nope. But all those are just as dangerous, and are (based on FBI stats) more likely to be used to hurt someone else.

The only people making a 'problem' where none exists are those that keep suggesting that 'assault weapons' need to be banned when they are used in less than 2% of violent criminal acts, those that for some reason call murder by car or knife or bat murder, but consider a gun used for murder as 'gun violence' rather than just murder.
 
Arbo said:
Yes, it is crazy for a doctor to ask that.
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No it's not. Only someone who is being illogical would worry about a person asking "do you own a gun?"
 
roughdraft274 said:
No it's not. Only someone who is being illogical would worry about a person asking "do you own a gun?"
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Ah, ignore logic and reason and continue on with the talking points. As expected...
 
roughdraft274 said:
No it's not. Only someone who is being illogical would worry about a person asking "do you own a gun?"
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Do you text while driving and if so then you surely dont mind your doctor turning you in to the police for creating a public safety hazard. Do you eat fast food while driving? Same deal. Do you have children? Do you give them sugared cereals? Do you give them sandwiches with processed lunch meat, pre-wrapped cheese, mayonnaise on white bread? Do you let them drink juice or sodas? Do you ensure they receive only healthy foods and make sure they get exercise daily? Any cleaning chemicals left in an unlocked container where they might gain access? If not...should the doctor report you to DCFS (and dont worry...YOU dont have to answer those questions...the doctor can just ask the kids and act based on what responses they get from them).
 
Arbo said:
Ah, ignore logic and reason and continue on with the talking points. As expected...
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You'd have to present some logic and reason in order for me to ignore it. A baseball bat isn't as dangerous as a gun. For starters I've never heard of anyone committing suicide with a bat. Most gun deaths (something like 65% are suicides). I think that makes it a reasonable question to ask to a person you fear may harm themselves. Sure there are other ways they could go about it, but that gun makes it alot easier and is a much more efficient way to do so, which is the whole point that you fail to grasp.
 
roughdraft274 said:
You'd have to present some logic and reason in order for me to ignore it. A baseball bat isn't as dangerous as a gun. For starters I've never heard of anyone committing suicide with a bat. Most gun deaths (something like 65% are suicides). I think that makes it a reasonable question to ask to a person you fear may harm themselves. Sure there are other ways they could go about it, but that gun makes it alot easier and is a much more efficient way to do so, which is the whole point that you fail to grasp.
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Care to guess what the suicide rates are in Japan and how often guns are used to commit suicide there?
 
VanceMack said:
Do you text while driving and if so then you surely dont mind your doctor turning you in to the police for creating a public safety hazard. Do you eat fast food while driving? Same deal. Do you have children? Do you give them sugared cereals? Do you give them sandwiches with processed lunch meat, pre-wrapped cheese, mayonnaise on white bread? Do you let them drink juice or sodas? Do you ensure they receive only healthy foods and make sure they get exercise daily? Any cleaning chemicals left in an unlocked container where they might gain access? If not...should the doctor report you to DCFS (and dont worry...YOU dont have to answer those questions...the doctor can just ask the kids and act based on what responses they get from them).
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The doctor only reports direct threats that have been made. IE: "I am going to and shoot up a building"

So you can stop with you stupid questions.
Clarify that no federal law prevents health care providers from warning law enforcement authorities about threats of violence: Doctors and other mental health professionals play an important role in protecting the safety of their patients and the broader community by reporting direct and credible threats of violence to the authorities. But there is public confusion about whether federal law prohibits such reports about threats of violence. The Department of Health and Human Services is issuing a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits these reports in any way.
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Credible threats of violence. Not "habits that could possibly harm yourself". What's the point in even debating this if you still can't grasp what is actually being said?
 
VanceMack said:
Care to guess what the suicide rates are in Japan and how often guns are used to commit suicide there?
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Care to guess what that has to do with our country? Would you argue that the suicide rate over there would be the exact same if there were 300,000,000 guns floating around? I bet quite a bit higher.

But that's speculation. All be it, my speculation is much better than what ever the hell you're trying to say, but speculation none the less.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Care to guess what that has to do with our country? Would you argue that the suicide rate over there would be the exact same if there were 300,000,000 guns floating around? I bet quite a bit higher.

But that's speculation. All be it, my speculation is much better than what ever the hell you're trying to say, but speculation none the less.
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What it has to do with ANYTHING is with people like...well...say...YOU making arguments to suit your objectives. Considering their suicide rate is EXTRAORDINARILY higher than ours and they manage to do it quite effectively, I would suggest your causative link of suicide to the availability of guns is ridiculous at best and by evidence, wrong at least.
 
Arbo said:
Oh, you have ignored it, and certainly don't use either.

As to how dangerous a baseball bat is, I think if this woman wasnt murdered with one, she'd tell you it killed her just as a gun could:

Kershaw woman 'brutally murdered' with baseball bat - WMBFNews.com, Myrtle Beach/Florence SC, Weather

Same with the Deltona murder victims...
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The fact that it's possible doesn't mean it's nearly on the same level. If it was then we'd issue soldiers louisville sluggers rather than rifles.

Do me a favor and cut the bull****. Someone being murdered with a baseball bat has nothing to do with he topic. Doctor's can ask about things that can harm you.
 
Ridiculous at best? When 65% of our suicides are by guns? You can't point to a single country that has high suicide rates with barely any guns and say that that proves that guns don't make suicide much easier to accomplish and make for a very quick and effective method. The more a person has to sit and think about committing suicide, the less likely they are to go through with it. With a gun in hand, you have a quick suicidal thought, you can be over with in seconds, if you had to do it some other way there is planning involved.

For example:
Guns in Homes Strongly Associated with Higher Rates of Suicide
Guns in Homes Strongly Associated with Higher Rates of Suicide - April 10, 2007 -2007 Releases - Press Releases - Harvard School of Public Health

Now you can continue to ignore the real topic as you wish.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Doctor's can ask about things that can harm you.
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That's the point. If they ask about guns, but don't ask about baseball bats, knives, explosives, etc, then they are concentrating on only one item, and that is wrong. I understand you don't get that, as partisans rarely see outside of their agenda.

BTW, if someone is so mentally messed up they want to kill themselves and the family doesn't help them, oh f'in well. We have too many problematic people in the world, one less is probably a good thing. Harsh? Hell yeah.
 
roughdraft274 said:
The doctor only reports direct threats that have been made. IE: "I am going to and shoot up a building"

So you can stop with you stupid questions.


Credible threats of violence. Not "habits that could possibly harm yourself". What's the point in even debating this if you still can't grasp what is actually being said?
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Not so. If a pediatrician were to find that a child lives in a home where a gun is not locked in a safe, he could easily decide that child is at risk and report it (and some would say it would be their moral obligation to do so). At least...that is the opinion of the American Academy of Pediatrics, and would also fit within CPS mandatory reporting guidelines for unsafe conditions in the home, and a report of neglect.

"Parents are often not aware that unsafe storage of guns has caused many child injuries and deaths," said Dr. Neal Kaufman, professor of pediatrics and public health at the University of California, Los Angeles Schools of Medicine and Public Health. Pediatricians have a responsibility to identify possible threats to a child's safety and highlight ways parents can lessen those risks, Kaufman said.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Ridiculous at best? When 65% of our suicides are by guns? You can't point to a single country that has high suicide rates with barely any guns and say that that proves that guns don't make suicide much easier to accomplish and make for a very quick and effective method. The more a person has to sit and think about committing suicide, the less likely they are to go through with it. With a gun in hand, you have a quick suicidal thought, you can be over with in seconds, if you had to do it some other way there is planning involved.

For example:
Guns in Homes Strongly Associated with Higher Rates of Suicide
Guns in Homes Strongly Associated with Higher Rates of Suicide - April 10, 2007 -2007 Releases - Press Releases - Harvard School of Public Health

Now you can continue to ignore the real topic as you wish.
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Yes. Ridiculous at best. EVIDENCE hows that people that are intent on committing acts of self harm WILL commit acts of self harm...be it with a firearms, pills, and other means

Common methods of suicide are jumping in front of trains, leaping off high places, hanging, or overdosing on medication.[1] Rail companies will charge the families of those who commit suicide a fee depending on the severity of disrupted traffic.[17]

A newer method, gaining in popularity partly due to publicity from Internet suicide websites,[2] is to use household products to make the poisonous gas hydrogen sulfide. In 2007, only 29 suicides used this gas, but in a span from January to September 2008, 867 suicides resulted from gas poisoning.[18] This method is particularly problematic, as there is high risk of hurting others in the process. After a man who attempted suicide in 2008 by swallowing pesticides was hospitalized, 50 people in the hospital were sickened by the toxic fumes.[19]

OBTW...Japans suicide rate? Its 250% (5x) higher than that in the US.
 
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