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Thread: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

  1. #71
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    If a person comes in and the doctor thinks the person is suicidal, it is a good idea to ask if the person has any guns at home and if they are locked up etc. because all evidence points towards the fact that you are more likely to perform a successful suicide if you have a gun nearby than if you were to go about suicide using another measure. It's a good question.
    I'm not really sorry to say, such a statement is just bold ignorance...
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    I'm not really sorry to say, such a statement is just bold ignorance...
    Guns in Homes Strongly Associated with Higher Rates of Suicide
    Guns in Homes Strongly Associated with Higher Rates of Suicide - April 10, 2007 -2007 Releases - Press Releases - Harvard School of Public Health


    Take it up with the studies that say so. Forgive my ignorant decision to trust the studies more than your personal partisan decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Guns in Homes Strongly Associated with Higher Rates of Suicide
    You so continually miss the point due to the blinders...
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    Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    I know it's just a means, a very good means, which is why it makes sense that a doctor asks a suicidal patient about it.

    I'm done with this. You won't understand regardless.
    I always laugh a bit when I see that. You IGNORE the factual reality that while women in this country use a means OTHER than a firearm the vast majority of the time and while a country like Japan with NO firearms access STILL manages to commit suicide at a rate 5x greater than the US, you still insist it is the evil gun that is the problem and that someone other than yourself "doesn't understand".

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I always laugh a bit when I see that. You IGNORE the factual reality that while women in this country use a means OTHER than a firearm the vast majority of the time and while a country like Japan with NO firearms access STILL manages to commit suicide at a rate 5x greater than the US, you still insist it is the evil gun that is the problem and that someone other than yourself "doesn't understand".
    You still are not understanding anything I am saying. So I'm going to list it out as simply as possible and any response form you that does not address them directly, I am not responding to. Because the fact that women use other means and that Japan has a higher rate has exactly nothing to do with my point. Also, your bull**** assertion that I am blaming everything on the gun is entirely wrong. I am saying it is a factor. Along with dozens of other factors. So you can cut that bull**** out right now. I am not making that claim, do not act like I am.

    1. When people have easy access to guns or guns in their home, they are much more likely to commit suicide and do so effectively. Some people use other methods, without doubt, but in this country, guns are the leading cause and provide a very efficient way to do so.
    As evidence I provide the following study:
    Guns in Homes Strongly Associated with Higher Rates of Suicide - April 10, 2007 -2007 Releases - Press Releases - Harvard School of Public Health

    2. Because of point 1, it makes sense that if a doctor feels that patient is suicidal, that they would ask the person, or the persons guardians, about gun ownership, and recommend safety precautions, such as locking them up or handing them over to a loved one, until the person has figured out a way to deal with their current situation.

    Those are my points. The fact that Japan has high rates of suicide does nothing to argue against the facts presented in point 1. Mainly because you can not provide me any evidence that would suggest that suicide rates would not be higher if people in japan had very easy access to guns. You have also not provided evidence showing that suicide attempts are also 5 times higher than our countries. As I have pointed out, one of the reasons guns are a main concern when discussing suicide, is that they result in a 90% success rate, where as pills result in 3% success rate.

    Now with this, I will stipulate that I am not suggesting that doctors should go around suggesting that everyone should get rid of their guns, I am not suggesting people kill themselves simply because they have guns, I am not saying that getting rid of all guns erases all cases of suicide, I am not saying that there are no other ways to commit suicide, and I am not saying that some of the people who commit suicide through the use of guns would not find some other way to commit suicide.

    Now, here's a simple question.

    Show me the proof that Japan's suicide rate wouldn't be any higher if they didn't have the easy access to guns that we have here. I have shown you the study showing how gun ownership in our country relates to suicide (which is the actual topic btw, imagine that?) now show me the proof that Japan's would be higher.

    To liken this to another topic... Lets say I show you that country "x" has a very long life span average, much longer than ours. They also have universal healthcare. Could I then make a blanket statement, as you are here about Japan and suicide rates, that the universal healthcare is obviously better than our system, given that they live longer? Or would I be completely ignoring the possible difference in society, such as maybe they don't have fast food joints on every corner, that they just live healthier lives in general etc...?

    That's right, You would have to take in to account the societal differences. And that is what you are missing on your japan analysis. In fact, suicide rates are all over the place, England has less suicides that us per capita and they have no guns. Regardless, that makes no difference to my argument. Japan having high rates, while it does show that you can commit suicide at high rates without guns, given other factors, it does not show, in ANY way, that doctors talking to patients that could be suicidal about their guns will not have any impact. Given that the studies show that gun ownership is so strongly associated with successful suicide attempts, it makes sense that it would have some kind of a positive impact to have the discussion with patients.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by BMCM View Post
    Then it had nothing to do with what Obama said today. It was something that was already in place. So why are you so upset today about something that happened two or three years ago by a nurse and not a Dr. Makes no since.


    Um, I don't recall saying I WAS upset.

    I didn't like it at the time, which is why I declined to answer, but it's not something that made steam come out of my ears... nor did I say it had anything to do with Obama.

    Take the partisan blinders off why doncha.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    I'm not really sorry to say, such a statement is just bold ignorance...
    Says the guy who doesn't give a ****? Forgive me if I don't take your responses, if you would even call them that, seriously.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  8. #78
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Actually, that's EXACTLY what it's about. Reread what you posted. It was all about threats of violence and issues around harm and mental illness. Goshin being asked was inappropriate unless there was cause. There's really nothing new about what is being suggested... except maybe the "young child in the home" thing, which, in that case, is not really appropriate to ask.

    If I remember rightly, it was part of some pre-made questionairre the nurse was asking me, something about "updating my health records". Been two-three years, maybe four.

    May have been insurance related or something, who knows.... but I was in for an infection, not mental issues.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    If I remember rightly, it was part of some pre-made questionairre the nurse was asking me, something about "updating my health records". Been two-three years, maybe four.

    May have been insurance related or something, who knows.... but I was in for an infection, not mental issues.
    It was a nonsense question that had no reason to be asked.
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    It was a nonsense question that had no reason to be asked.


    Yeah, that's why I declined to answer it. I thought it was kinda snoopy and irrelevant, but I didn't blow a gasket over it.

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