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Thread: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    You're talking about a completely different country with a completely different set of societal standards and norms and conditions.

    Why do you ignore the study that compares apples to apples but harp on your comparison of apples to oranges?
    We are talking about the SAME act committed by people on two different continents. We are talking about people without access to firearms 5 TIMES more successful at committing the act, very clearly demonstrating that where there is a will, the 'way' doesnt mean ****.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    We are talking about the SAME act committed by people on two different continents. We are talking about people without access to firearms 5 TIMES more successful at committing the act, very clearly demonstrating that where there is a will, the 'way' doesnt mean ****.
    I am talking about a scientific study, showing that IN THE SAME COUNTRY, it very much does matter.

    Also you're comparing successful suicides to successful suicides. You haven't shown any stats on suicide attempts in Japan. As I've pointed out, Suicide attempts by pills, another large segment of all suicide attempts in this country, is only 3% successful where as the gun gets you up to over a 90% success rate. For all you know the attempt rate is 100 times higher in japan and the success rate is only 5 times higher, which if you have any intelligence at all, you can tell would be significantly higher if every body in japan had easy access to a gun.

    VM, you are not taking into account Japans society, the failure of their mental healthcare service etc.

    You can not ignore all this stuff and expect me to take you serious.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    They ask about guns mainly out of fear of the person killing themselves.
    The doctor has a duty to report a credible threat regardless of if the person said they were going to shoot someone, or poison them, or blow them up , or what ever.
    So which is it? Hurting themselves or hurting others? Because you keep jumping around. And of course you keep ignoring all the other things doctors could ask about that are more frequently used to hurt/kill others...

    Thanks for letting everyone know that it's pointless to debate with you. You just don't give a **** period. And good for you. Let the rest of us have a civilized discussion with out your caveman logic interrupting us.
    Awe, because I "don't care", you use that as a justification to drive over the cliff? How sad.

    FWIW, in a discussion with the wife this morning, she informed me that when I was in the military and she would take the kids into that 'great' government healthcare system for 'wellness' checks, they'd ask about firearms in the house and all sorts of other stuff not related to the kids or their wellness... in general her answers were 'it's none of your damn business'.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    I am talking about a scientific study, showing that IN THE SAME COUNTRY, it very much does matter.

    Also you're comparing successful suicides to successful suicides. You haven't shown any stats on suicide attempts in Japan. As I've pointed out, Suicide attempts by pills, another large segment of all suicide attempts in this country, is only 3% successful where as the gun gets you up to over a 90% success rate. For all you know the attempt rate is 100 times higher in japan and the success rate is only 5 times higher, which if you have any intelligence at all, you can tell would be significantly higher if every body in japan had easy access to a gun.

    VM, you are not taking into account Japans society, the failure of their mental healthcare service etc.

    You can not ignore all this stuff and expect me to take you serious.
    And the FACTS show that where suicidal people do NOT have access to firearms they STILL manage to kill themselves, and a rate 5X more than we do. I know...you want to cling to that bone...but there is just no meat on it. Women in this country are FAR less likely to attempt suicide using a firearm, yet manage to complete the act quite efficiently using other means. You HAVE to get the FACTS, you just refuse to ACKNOWLEDGE the facts. A firearm is A means of committing suicide. Around the world, people demonstrate far GREATER proficiency by using means OTHER than a firearm. IN this country, women demonstrate the ability by means OTHER than a firearm. Its JUST a means.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    And the FACTS show that where suicidal people do NOT have access to firearms they STILL manage to kill themselves, and a rate 5X more than we do. I know...you want to cling to that bone...but there is just no meat on it. Women in this country are FAR less likely to attempt suicide using a firearm, yet manage to complete the act quite efficiently using other means. You HAVE to get the FACTS, you just refuse to ACKNOWLEDGE the facts. A firearm is A means of committing suicide. Around the world, people demonstrate far GREATER proficiency by using means OTHER than a firearm. IN this country, women demonstrate the ability by means OTHER than a firearm. Its JUST a means.
    I know it's just a means, a very good means, which is why it makes sense that a doctor asks a suicidal patient about it.

    I'm done with this. You won't understand regardless.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Yes it's their personal property. That doesn't mean it can't be asked about. Don't you think a doctor would ask about your house if you came in with lead poisoning and he though that old lead paint could be the culprit? ****, last time I was at the doctor for an ingrown nail he made sure to ask me about my shoes, which are my personal property.
    How is either of those examples related to asking about guns that have nothing to do with the problem they are facing?

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    So which is it? Hurting themselves or hurting others? Because you keep jumping around. And of course you keep ignoring all the other things doctors could ask about that are more frequently used to hurt/kill others...
    If someone said they are going to hurt others, then the doctor would be asking for that reason. If someone said they have suicidal thoughts, he'd be asking for that reason. This isn't complicated and I don't have the time to draw you a diagram.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Find me an instance where a doctor turned in parents for not storing guns safely. That's not what doctors are supposed to be doing. They can discuss unsafe practices with the family, but their duty is to report threats of violence, as I have said a dozen times before.
    How is that their duty? How is that related to their job?

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    If someone said they are going to hurt others, then the doctor would be asking for that reason. If someone said they have suicidal thoughts, he'd be asking for that reason. This isn't complicated and I don't have the time to draw you a diagram.
    In either case, it is irrelevant if they have guns. If it is the duty of the doctor to 'report' people that say they are going to hurt others, or themselves, then report it. Done.

    I'm sure a crayon masterpiece from you wouldn't change the realities you keep fighting against.
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    In either case, it is irrelevant if they have guns. If it is the duty of the doctor to 'report' people that say they are going to hurt others, or themselves, then report it. Done.
    It's two seperate issues. They are not always going to ask if there is a gun. If someone makes a threat, then if they have a gun or not doesn't change the fact, and the doctor can report the threat without the gun information

    If a person comes in and the doctor thinks the person is suicidal, it is a good idea to ask if the person has any guns at home and if they are locked up etc. because all evidence points towards the fact that you are more likely to perform a successful suicide if you have a gun nearby than if you were to go about suicide using another measure. It's a good question.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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