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Thread: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

  1. #51
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    That's the point. If they ask about guns, but don't ask about baseball bats, knives, explosives, etc, then they are concentrating on only one item, and that is wrong. I understand you don't get that, as partisans rarely see outside of their agenda.
    They ask about guns mainly out of fear of the person killing themselves. Guns are by far the most effective way of doing so. According to the study I just posted, only 3% of people that commit suicide with pills are successful, compared to more than 90% by firearms.

    The doctor has a duty to report a credible threat regardless of if the person said they were going to shoot someone, or poison them, or blow them up , or what ever. But if we are talking suicide, if that person has a gun easily available to them, then the chances of them actually killing themselves are WAY higher, and it deserves a simple question, regardless of your irrational fear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    BTW, if someone is so mentally messed up they want to kill themselves and the family doesn't help them, oh f'in well. We have too many problematic people in the world, one less is probably a good thing. Harsh? Hell yeah.
    Thanks for letting everyone know that it's pointless to debate with you. You just don't give a **** period. And good for you. Let the rest of us have a civilized discussion with out your caveman logic interrupting us.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  2. #52
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Not so. If a pediatrician were to find that a child lives in a home where a gun is not locked in a safe, he could easily decide that child is at risk and report it (and some would say it would be their moral obligation to do so). At least...that is the opinion of the American Academy of Pediatrics, and would also fit within CPS mandatory reporting guidelines for unsafe conditions in the home, and a report of neglect.

    "Parents are often not aware that unsafe storage of guns has caused many child injuries and deaths," said Dr. Neal Kaufman, professor of pediatrics and public health at the University of California, Los Angeles Schools of Medicine and Public Health. Pediatricians have a responsibility to identify possible threats to a child's safety and highlight ways parents can lessen those risks, Kaufman said.
    Find me an instance where a doctor turned in parents for not storing guns safely. That's not what doctors are supposed to be doing. They can discuss unsafe practices with the family, but their duty is to report threats of violence, as I have said a dozen times before.

    A pediatrician talking about safe gun ownership with parents has nothing to do with them turning you in, lol. Your quote is laughable and shows you have no idea what were even arguing.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  3. #53
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post

    OBTW...Japans suicide rate? Its 250% (5x) higher than that in the US.
    And yet it still has nothing to do with the topic, and completely ignores the study I posted that showed you are much more likely, in our country, to die from suicide if you have a gun in the home.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  4. #54
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Find me an instance where a doctor turned in parents for not storing guns safely. That's not what doctors are supposed to be doing. They can discuss unsafe practices with the family, but their duty is to report threats of violence, as I have said a dozen times before.

    A pediatrician talking about safe gun ownership with parents has nothing to do with them turning you in, lol. Your quote is laughable and shows you have no idea what were even arguing.
    Oh I COMPLETELY agree. Thats NOT what they are supposed to do. But then...this new EO isnt ABOUT what doctors are SUPPOSED to do, it is about what they are now being told they can and SHOULD do.

    I love your LOLing...it is so cute. Now...as a mandatory reporter...what happens to you when you are aware of a situation where a child might be considered at risk in a home and you dont report it?

  5. #55
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    And yet it still has nothing to do with the topic, and completely ignores the study I posted that showed you are much more likely, in our country, to die from suicide if you have a gun in the home.
    Like I said...you keep on making up **** in the pretense that your comments support your ideology. The FACT is that guns do not CAUSE suicides, do not INCREASE the number and likelihood of someone attempting or even completing the suicidal act as is EVIDENCED by people that do not HAVE access to firearms...yet manage to kill themselves at a rate 5 TIMES greater than we do with our eeeeeeeevil guns.

  6. #56
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Like I said...you keep on making up **** in the pretense that your comments support your ideology. The FACT is that guns do not CAUSE suicides, do not INCREASE the number and likelihood of someone attempting or even completing the suicidal act as is EVIDENCED by people that do not HAVE access to firearms...yet manage to kill themselves at a rate 5 TIMES greater than we do with our eeeeeeeevil guns.
    Sorry, you're calling it a fact that guns don't increase suicides even though I have given you a study proving otherwise. It is not the only factor, suicides can certainly be cause or influenced by economic woes, a societal acceptance of suicide etc as we see in japan, but to argue like you are that they make no difference is silly.

    You can't compare our suicide rate to japans and say "see they don't have guns and it's higher!" That does not prove causation, and completely ignores that in Japan it's more out in the open and socially acceptable and is practically a part of heritage.

    A more appropriate view would be comparing people within a single country, where other factors aren't nearly as different, and see how much more likly a person is to accomplish suicide when they don't have a gun and when they do. I have given you that study, the conclusions are clear. If you don't choose to accept them, that's your problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  7. #57
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Sorry, you're calling it a fact that guns don't increase suicides even though I have given you a study proving otherwise. It is not the only factor, suicides can certainly be cause or influenced by economic woes, a societal acceptance of suicide etc as we see in japan, but to argue like you are that they make no difference is silly.

    You can't compare our suicide rate to japans and say "see they don't have guns and it's higher!" That does not prove causation, and completely ignores that in Japan it's more out in the open and socially acceptable and is practically a part of heritage.

    A more appropriate view would be comparing people within a single country, where other factors aren't nearly as different, and see how much more likly a person is to accomplish suicide when they don't have a gun and when they do. I have given you that study, the conclusions are clear. If you don't choose to accept them, that's your problem.
    Like my grandpappy used to say..."Why thats just horse****, son."

    You simply REFUSE to accept the FACT that people WILL commit suicide by any means necessary and that a country WITHOUT ready access to firearms has CLEARLY proven that it is not the MEANS that is lethal...it is the individual and their intent. 5 TIMES higher suicide rate WITHOUT guns. Your argument go boom.

  8. #58
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Like my grandpappy used to say..."Why thats just horse****, son."

    You simply REFUSE to accept the FACT that people WILL commit suicide by any means necessary
    Then why does my study, scientific study vs. your compare apples to oranges, bull**** comparison, show that you are much more likely to commit suicide if you have a gun in your home? It's because it makes the process fast and easy and very successful. I've given you the stats and the studies, choose to accept them or continue ignoring them, I don't really care any more.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  9. #59
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Then why does my study, scientific study vs. your compare apples to oranges, bull**** comparison, show that you are much more likely to commit suicide if you have a gun in your home? It's because it makes the process fast and easy and very successful. I've given you the stats and the studies, choose to accept them or continue ignoring them, I don't really care any more.
    DOES your study take into account the rfact that people that dont have access to firearms are FIVE TIMES more successful at committing suicide? Really? Really?

    Yeah...I dont think so either.

  10. #60
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    DOES your study take into account the rfact that people that dont have access to firearms are FIVE TIMES more successful at committing suicide? Really? Really?

    Yeah...I dont think so either.
    You're talking about a completely different country with a completely different set of societal standards and norms and conditions.

    Why do you ignore the study that compares apples to apples but harp on your comparison of apples to oranges?
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

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