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Thread: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

  1. #181
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I think I've already said that this is ridiculous and should not be followed... and have also said that this was nothing more than a suggestion, not a directive or law.
    Thats the problem, suggestions in our government tend to eventually become laws.
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  2. #182
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
     Protect the rights of health care providers to talk to their patients about gun safety: Doctors and other health care providers also need to be able to ask about firearms in their patients’ homes and safe storage of those firearms, especially if their patients show signs of certain mental illnesses or if they have a young child or mentally ill family member at home. Some have incorrectly claimed that language in the Affordable Care Act prohibits doctors from asking their patients about guns and gun safety. Medical groups also continue to fight against state laws attempting to ban doctors from asking these questions. The Administration will issue guidance clarifying that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit or otherwise regulate communication between doctors and patients, including about firearms.[/indent]
    There ya go.
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  3. #183
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Thats the problem, suggestions in our government tend to eventually become laws.
    Not all, and I am not going to condemn a suggestion.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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  4. #184
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    No, its been two-three years, and I think it was a nurse filling out a questionaire now that I think about it.
    Was ask by a former doctor probably ten or more years ago.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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  5. #185
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    That completely ignores the psychological reality that women HAVE access to firearms but are less likely to use them. It also ignores the factual reality that the Japanese DEMONSTRATE means is simply NOT RELEVANT. Your position is the same mindless position advanced by those that ignore trends on violence and blame suicide...or violent crime...on 'the evil guns'.

    When people are committed to kill themselves they do. By any means necessary. Japan PROVES how foolish the anti-gun argument is.
    Quit with the "evil guns" bull****. At no point have I said anything like that and you are simply pretending that I hold a strictly anti gun view when in reality am not advocating for anything more than Doctors having the ability to ask abut things that can harm their patients, and that doctors have the ability to talk to authorities if there was a credible threat, regardless of weapon, from a patient.

    Also, you are still ignoring my study and trying to pretend that alot of Japanese killing themselves is relevant. You think because they kill themselves often, they have proved you don't need guns, which is true, but you have not shown that they are killing themselves with 90% success rate like what you see from people that use guns to do the job.

    Also, women are less likely to use firearms, that's why we don't have as many female suicides in this country. Thanks for proving my point, lol. Women attempt suicide over men by 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 depending on where you pull your statistic. However about four times as many men are successful at committing suicide, mainly because they use guns and women don't. Women often use suffocation or poisoning which has a very low success rate ( as pointed out in the study you still haven't read).

    You are proving my point here dude. I'm giving it to you in black and white. If everyone that wanted to kill themselves went to every length to make sure of it regardless of what they use then women would be killing themselves at much greater rates as they attempt suicide much more often, however it's exactly the opposite of what you say should happen. They gender that uses guns is WAY more likely to be successful, and you can contribute that to men just having more will power to do it or whatever other excuse you want, but firearms play a large role in that statistic.

    Now you can continue ignoring my facts and talk about japan or what ever you are going on about.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  6. #186
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    Quit with the "evil guns" bull****. At no point have I said anything like that and you are simply pretending that I hold a strictly anti gun view when in reality am not advocating for anything more than Doctors having the ability to ask abut things that can harm their patients, and that doctors have the ability to talk to authorities if there was a credible threat, regardless of weapon, from a patient.

    Also, you are still ignoring my study and trying to pretend that alot of Japanese killing themselves is relevant. You think because they kill themselves often, they have proved you don't need guns, which is true, but you have not shown that they are killing themselves with 90% success rate like what you see from people that use guns to do the job.

    Also, women are less likely to use firearms, that's why we don't have as many female suicides in this country. Thanks for proving my point, lol. Women attempt suicide over men by 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 depending on where you pull your statistic. However about four times as many men are successful at committing suicide, mainly because they use guns and women don't. Women often use suffocation or poisoning which has a very low success rate ( as pointed out in the study you still haven't read).

    You are proving my point here dude. I'm giving it to you in black and white. If everyone that wanted to kill themselves went to every length to make sure of it regardless of what they use then women would be killing themselves at much greater rates as they attempt suicide much more often, however it's exactly the opposite of what you say should happen. They gender that uses guns is WAY more likely to be successful, and you can contribute that to men just having more will power to do it or whatever other excuse you want, but firearms play a large role in that statistic.

    Now you can continue ignoring my facts and talk about japan or what ever you are going on about.
    People that are committed to killing themselves do so. the means are eirrelevant. Women prove that, Japan as a country proves that. All you truly give a **** about is a cause...hence you cling to the 'eeeevil guns' as the deadly cause, even though Japanese citizens kill themselves at a rate 5x MORE than US citizens WITHOUT handguns. They use what they have.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    People that are committed to killing themselves do so. the means are eirrelevant. Women prove that, Japan as a country proves that. All you truly give a **** about is a cause...hence you cling to the 'eeeevil guns' as the deadly cause, even though Japanese citizens kill themselves at a rate 5x MORE than US citizens WITHOUT handguns. They use what they have.
    You're just repeating yourself over and over again while ignoring my points.

    You don't even understand what we are de3bating here. I am not aiming for "get rid f all guns" or a country where we have 0 suicides. I don't think that's possibe and I don't want to get rid of all guns. But I do think asking certain people if they possess guns and tak about gun safty with them if they are deemed suicidal is a good idea. You are only arguing to argue. Hence, why you keep acting as though I am calling guns evil. You are acting like a brat of a child.

    You act as though I have some ulterior motive. Wake up and realize what I'm arguing before screaming bloody murder. I have never said guns are always the cause, I have never said to take them away. I have only said that it's something that should be asked about if you have a suicidal patient. It makes sense.

    And the idea that "well women commit suicide too, therefor talking to people about their guns won't do anything" is a retarded idea because 1. People that use guns are much more likley to be successful, and 2. people with access to guns are much more likly to commit a successful suicide.

    Talk about the facts. I've mopped you up and down this thread with studies, statistics and facts backing my positions and you have reverted to baseless falsehoods such as that I think guns are evil or I have some kind of cause against guns. I'm done with you. I'll let you lie all you want without my stupid facts and studies getting in your way.
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is so small as to be stupid. Do you want registration? given less than 3% of criminals get their guns from private sales, its pretty much a waste of resources
    **Thirty Minutes Later**
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    you are confused. I never denied that many criminals get guns in private sales.

  8. #188
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    You're just repeating yourself over and over again while ignoring my points.

    You don't even understand what we are de3bating here. I am not aiming for "get rid f all guns" or a country where we have 0 suicides. I don't think that's possibe and I don't want to get rid of all guns. But I do think asking certain people if they possess guns and tak about gun safty with them if they are deemed suicidal is a good idea. You are only arguing to argue. Hence, why you keep acting as though I am calling guns evil. You are acting like a brat of a child.

    You act as though I have some ulterior motive. Wake up and realize what I'm arguing before screaming bloody murder. I have never said guns are always the cause, I have never said to take them away. I have only said that it's something that should be asked about if you have a suicidal patient. It makes sense.

    And the idea that "well women commit suicide too, therefor talking to people about their guns won't do anything" is a retarded idea because 1. People that use guns are much more likley to be successful, and 2. people with access to guns are much more likly to commit a successful suicide.

    Talk about the facts. I've mopped you up and down this thread with studies, statistics and facts backing my positions and you have reverted to baseless falsehoods such as that I think guns are evil or I have some kind of cause against guns. I'm done with you. I'll let you lie all you want without my stupid facts and studies getting in your way.
    As are you. I see people that are in the process of or have recently attempted suicide pretty much every day. I understand the gig better than most because I deal with it approx 1200 times a year. Ive taken guns from people, knives from people, pill bottles from people, ropes from people. I see people attempt or threaten to attempt in every way manner and type you can imagine and many you couldn't. Go back the first time I posted in this thread and several times since and you will see that I stated WHERE the patient is expressing active suicidal ideation or extremes in depression it is not inappropriate for a medical doctor to ask questions regarding the availability of means. The reality is...that's usually not what they do. USUALLY when someone presents as a real threat they are referred immediately to a psych provider or sent to an ER via police or ambulance on a hold order for a psychiatric evaluation. If that's all this was, then there wouldn't be a need for further discussion. That's not what is being proposed. What IS being proposed is that these questions be asked as a matter of course by doctors and not only to adult patients but to children as well. That is not appropriate.

    As to who is clinging to what and repeating the same thing, I have pretty clearly demonstrated...guns are just a means. Take away ALL guns ala Japan and people will still commit suicide. The EVEIDENCE proves they not only find successful means but do it SUCCESSFULLY 5 times more than we do in this country. Guns aren't the issue...but they sure are the cause.

  9. #189
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    There ya go.
    You seem to have misread what the Weekly Standard said Obama said .
    It doesn't say that young children should be asked.

    Allow me...

    Protect the rights of health care providers to talk to their patients about gun safety: Doctors and other health care providers also need to be able to ask about firearms in their patientsí homes and safe storage of those firearms, especially if their patients show signs of certain mental illnesses or if they have a young child or mentally ill family member at home.

    Doctors ... need to be able to ask about firearms ... especially if ... [the patients] have a young child ... at home.

    If you were to diagram the sentence, you would note that it does not indicate that there's any intention to ask children. It's about asking patients who have young children at home.



    Any other sources which you purport say something akin to "[t]hey want doctors to ask children about guns in their homes"?
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    You seem to have misread what the Weekly Standard said Obama said .
    It doesn't say that young children should be asked.

    Allow me...

    Protect the rights of health care providers to talk to their patients about gun safety: Doctors and other health care providers also need to be able to ask about firearms in their patients’ homes and safe storage of those firearms, especially if their patients show signs of certain mental illnesses or if they have a young child or mentally ill family member at home.

    Doctors ... need to be able to ask about firearms ... especially if ... [the patients] have a young child ... at home.

    If you were to diagram the sentence, you would note that it does not indicate that there's any intention to ask children. It's about asking patients who have young children at home.



    Any other sources which you purport say something akin to "[t]hey want doctors to ask children about guns in their homes"?
    Nope, think you misread it. The key word being "or". Which means it is a stand alone part of the sentence. Its like saying "You should do this, or that, or maybe that instead".

    As for any other sources, nope, I'm not that interested in this particular part of the subject to look any up. Combine that with feeling lazy and thats just the way the cookies crumble.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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