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Thread: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

  1. #151
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    And the "anti-gun" argument is that "If a Dr's professional opinion is that it's prudent to do so, he should ask about a patient's access to firearms?"

    Is there some reason why we want to micromanage Drs? Have they abused their ability to ask us about our firearms over the last couple of centuries? What harm has come of it?
    Typical. That's NOT what is happening. The change is not an opposition to a doctors standard practice...it is an attempt to have doctors change THEIR practices to ask more questions...questions ABSOLUTELY unrelated to medical needs. But then...Im SURE you advocate that doctor prying into every detail of your life, right? Or backdooring their way into your life by interrogating your kids. You aren't just pro interrogation on gun ownership...you are pro interrogation on diet, meal choices, exercise, excessive TV, leaving children unattended, does your mommy or daddy text while driving? Use a cell phone (Do you know how many die from that horrible combination?)? Does daddy have a boyfriend that mommy doesn't know about-he is putting mommy at risk! Does mommy or daddy leave cleaning supplies under the sink? Oh...the list of 'dangerous' behaviors is endless. And of course...Im SURE you advocate for ALL of them and not JUST interrogation on guns. Why...if you did...that would be COMPLETELY hypocritical.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Not nonsense... Goshin was asked... now... is he unstable?
    Of course nonsense. Read my posts to find the answer.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Typical. That's NOT what is happening. The change is not an opposition to a doctors standard practice...it is an attempt to have doctors change THEIR practices to ask more questions...questions ABSOLUTELY unrelated to medical needs. But then...Im SURE you advocate that doctor prying into every detail of your life, right? Or backdooring their way into your life by interrogating your kids. You aren't just pro interrogation on gun ownership...you are pro interrogation on diet, meal choices, exercise, excessive TV, leaving children unattended, does your mommy or daddy text while driving? Use a cell phone (Do you know how many die from that horrible combination?)? Does daddy have a boyfriend that mommy doesn't know about-he is putting mommy at risk! Does mommy or daddy leave cleaning supplies under the sink? Oh...the list of 'dangerous' behaviors is endless. And of course...Im SURE you advocate for ALL of them and not JUST interrogation on guns. Why...if you did...that would be COMPLETELY hypocritical.
    You're over reacting. The ONLY change that I see is that it suggests that doctors routinely ask about guns if there are small children in the house. It's a dumb question... unless there is justification, but there is no law that gives this suggestion any bite. It's a suggestion only. Beyond that, if you read the language of what was in the OP, pretty much everything else is about questioning a patient based on the doctor's assessment of their potential for risk. You and I work in the same field and, I would imagine, do this frequently. In fact, I just did it 30 minutes ago. This has been SOP for a long time and will continue to be.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #154
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    Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    You're over reacting. The ONLY change that I see is that it suggests that doctors routinely ask about guns if there are small children in the house. It's a dumb question... unless there is justification, but there is no law that gives this suggestion any bite. It's a suggestion only. Beyond that, if you read the language of what was in the OP, pretty much everything else is about questioning a patient based on the doctor's assessment of their potential for risk. You and I work in the same field and, I would imagine, do this frequently. In fact, I just did it 30 minutes ago. This has been SOP for a long time and will continue to be.
    I posted quotes and cites earlier in this thread where AMA and APA representatives talked about how it was the 'right' thing to do to query children about guns in the homes. No... I don't believe the vast majority of doctors will do this and as I have said, twice now, where patients are suicidal or expressing extreme depression it is NOT an inappropriate question for a doctor to ask. Proposing it or advocating it as a matter of course? Inappropriate at least.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I posted quotes and cites earlier in this thread where AMA and APA representatives talked about how it was the 'right' thing to do to query children about guns in the homes. No... I don't believe the vast majority of doctors will do this and as I have said, twice now, where patients are suicidal or expressing extreme depression it is NOT an inappropriate question for a doctor to ask. Proposing it or advocating it as a matter of course? Inappropriate at least.
    I would agree, but I'm not seeing anything other than a silly suggestion that most are going to ignore. I read an article online, recently, that discussed that most health care providers have no intention of following this suggestion and will continue to do what they are doing.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #156
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I would agree, but I'm not seeing anything other than a silly suggestion that most are going to ignore. I read an article online, recently, that discussed that most health care providers have no intention of following this suggestion and will continue to do what they are doing.
    That MAY be the thing that annoys me the most. MOST of the round of Exec Orders were just that. Irrelevant silly suggestions designed only to give the pretense that something is being done about violent crime. No...the doctors I know aren't going to be bothered with this. As the med associations continue to promote the community health models they may develop questionnaires that their administrators will read, review, and then god forbid should a bunch of 19 year olds begin to start lecturing people about gun ownership or gun safety.

    In our world...it is a very COMMON line of questioning, but again...we aren't seeing people with shingles or pain in their left abdomen.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Typical. That's NOT what is happening. The change is not an opposition to a doctors standard practice...it is an attempt to have doctors change THEIR practices to ask more questions...questions ABSOLUTELY unrelated to medical needs.
    I have not heard that anywhere but in your post. Can you quote the language of the "change"?
    The language which asks Drs to change their practice?
    Also, I would ask, under what authority would a Dr face consequences for failing to change how he practices medicine?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    But then...Im SURE you advocate that doctor prying into every detail of your life, right? Or backdooring their way into your life by interrogating your kids.
    Well, I am not surprised that you would think such of me. But, I have grown accustomed to you being wrong. So continuing to be wrong--this time about me and what I think--comes as no surprise I s'pose.
    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    You aren't just pro interrogation on gun ownership...
    In case it wasn't clearly stated enough, I am not. But, don't let facts get the way now when they don't appear to have been stopping you before.

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    ...you are pro interrogation on diet, meal choices, exercise...
    And you find these issues to be beyond the purview of your physician?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    ...excessive TV, leaving children unattended, does your mommy or daddy text while driving? Use a cell phone (Do you know how many die from that horrible combination?)? Does daddy have a boyfriend that mommy doesn't know about-he is putting mommy at risk! Does mommy or daddy leave cleaning supplies under the sink? Oh...the list of 'dangerous' behaviors is endless. And of course...Im SURE you advocate for ALL of them and not JUST interrogation on guns. Why...if you did...that would be COMPLETELY hypocritical.
    I think you have gone quite round the bend with your strange assumptions about me.
    Not gonna try and stop you or correct you. Just letting you know. fwiw.

    Anyway, back to the topic at hand, since Drs have been able to ask us about our firearms since the dawn of America, how is it we have not suffered from this heinous ability of our physicians to ask us questions?
    Why is it that it has taken us more than 200 years to wake up to the grave danger?
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    here's the text for you to quote from Vance,

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/defa..._time_full.pdf

    Protect the rights of health care providers to talk to their patients about gun safety:
    Doctors and other health care providers also need to be able to ask about firearms in their patients’ homes and safe storage of those firearms, especially if their patients show signs of certain mental illnesses or if they have a young child or mentally ill family member at home.
    Some have incorrectly claimed that language in the Affordable Care Act prohibits doctors from asking their patients about guns and gun safety. Medical groups also continue to fight against state laws attempting to ban doctors from asking these questions.
    The Administration will issue guidance clarifying that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit or otherwise regulate communication between doctors and patients, including about firearms.


    Please quote and underline the language which "is an attempt to have doctors change THEIR practices to ask more questions"

    Whenever you get ready.
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    MD's are now law enforcement.

    I can't wait until our medical records are public... of course... for the good of the nation.
    I've got mixed feelings about this. I'm not that opposed to the mental doctors alerting LEO is there is a potential threat to the person or the community. However, that is not what this EO says.

    I am opposed to medical professionals (the EO does not single out doctors, only medical professional professionals) to taking my time to lecture me on gun safety. In addition, many medical professionals, like many in the public sector, look at any one who owns a firearm as mentally unstable, and the fear of over reach is real.

    I also would expect that a medical professionas whol get it wrong and fail to notify, or notifies in error, are laying themselves wide open to lawsuits.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    Ha! Obama's alternate universe.

    The doctors that I've picked out just by random chance, all seem to be armed to the teeth. And they have the money to buy the most expensive guns available.

    Have to wonder if Obama actually think Doctors like and respect him.
    Does anybody respect him?

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