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Thread: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

  1. #111
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    What bothers me about this is who gets to decide if the patient is unfit? Is that the doctor's call, or is it some administration czar who flags every questionaire with a check in the wrong box. For instance, if I go to my doctor to complain about the knots I get in my back that are likely stress related (hey, I'm a father, a husband and a business owner) and that I had seen a counselor about learning to manage stress better, The form may indicate (depending on interpretation and who is doing the interpreting) that I was stressed and had received psychiatric treatment. Does that make me unfit to own a firearm? Well, that depends on who you ask. And that's the problem. Set the standards high enough and nearly everybody could be deemed a hazard. The left can say "we are not out to take away your guns" as many times and as often as they like, it doesn't change the fact that several of the higher ups on the left (Feinstein for instance) would take them all if they had the chance and have said as much publicly. I've seen veterans faced with this, the questionaire is already used by the VA and any mention of PSTD or depression or use of stabilizing drugs is an immediate flag. A "Yes" in this column will result in a CCW permit being denied. As for outright confiscation, it's only a matter of time. All they have to do is convince the low information voters that "it's for the children" and they can't hand over their Constitution rights fast enough.
    I keep hearing about this form. Where can I see a copy of it. I've never seen my Dr use one nor have I ever been asked if i own a gun. I was there yesterday for some flu meds and the only things he asked was how long have I been coughing and things like that, nothing about guns
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by BMCM View Post
    I keep hearing about this form. Where can I see a copy of it. I've never seen my Dr use one nor have I ever been asked if i own a gun. I was there yesterday for some flu meds and the only things he asked was how long have I been coughing and things like that, nothing about guns
    I haven't seen it either. Are you a veteran? I have quite a few friends and acquaintances who are and I hear about it often. None of them have said they were required to answer the question, but they are certainly annoyed enough by it to bring it up in conversation, and not together. Some of these guys don't know each other. But when you have veterans who served their country by their own choice (again not all of them, 3 of the guys who have told me about this are Vietnam veterans, I would assume at least some of them were drafted) talking about how poorly they are treated (by the system, not the doctors or nurses necessarily) there isn't much reason to doubt them. Two of the Vietnam guys as it turns out have the same favorite nurse. She is a middle aged black woman who takes no crap and sets them straight when they need it, they seem to respect that.

  3. #113
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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by tech30528 View Post
    I haven't seen it either. Are you a veteran? I have quite a few friends and acquaintances who are and I hear about it often. None of them have said they were required to answer the question, but they are certainly annoyed enough by it to bring it up in conversation, and not together. Some of these guys don't know each other. But when you have veterans who served their country by their own choice (again not all of them, 3 of the guys who have told me about this are Vietnam veterans, I would assume at least some of them were drafted) talking about how poorly they are treated (by the system, not the doctors or nurses necessarily) there isn't much reason to doubt them. Two of the Vietnam guys as it turns out have the same favorite nurse. She is a middle aged black woman who takes no crap and sets them straight when they need it, they seem to respect that.
    I retired for the U.S.Navy in 1996. Even then I didn't see any kind of form that asked about owning guns.
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  4. #114
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    Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Since Drs have been able to ask you about firearms for centuries now, what exactly has changed now that Obama has pointed out that Drs can ask about firearms?
    I am not seeing the difference between the day before Obama said that Drs can ask about firearms and the day after Obama said Drs can ask about firearms.

    Obamacare specifically prohibits the govt from collecting data on firearm ownership etc.
    Doctors can do and SHOULD make inquiries in patients that have expressed extremes in depression or suicidal ideation. Said so on my very first post on his thread. However there is a world of difference in asking t of someone that is at risk vs asking it of patients on a routine basis or of querying their kids. Or...do you support them also inquiring about every other potential dangerous action and behavior?

    Doctors roles are not to query patients, teach patients about the eeeeevils of firearms, or act as a grand inquisitor. Working as closely with doctors as I do I can tell you that most WON'T. They MAY have their intern or administrative secretary give community health surveys. Then you have a 19 year old college student lecturing you about get it and driving, or eating junk food, or buying your kid sugared cereal or McDonalds.

    Not their role.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    No, they shouldn't just ask--they should report them to somebody. Let's create new police forces...the nutrition police, the exercise police, the _____ police. Oh, and train the kids to snitch on their parents too.
    Other tyrants have used the children for secret police. Why shouldn't ours?

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by BMCM View Post
    Who do you consider is in this 47% group that don't pay taxes? Are you counting that 80 year old couple that lives on SS, or the Disabled Vet that lives on Disability, how about that Cancer patient that gets disability because they can not work? It's the Tax Code that don't require these people to pay taxes.

    Why didn't you Republicans change theses things when you were in charge of the WH, the Senate, and Congress or was it not a problem then.
    Good point. President Bush did the nation no favors by removing people from the tax rolls. But then, he was not a conservative, he like his father, was an establishment Republican. The Congress, consisting of a Senate and a House of Representatives, was intended to make it difficult to pass damaging legislation. Incremental changes over the years have ruined the future for the generations to come.

    Your four people above get a pass. Now get the other fifty million off welfare and back into the work force. I grow tired of supporting all of the slackers.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    He said Romney was right, so yes, because those groups are in the 47% of folks who paid no federal income taxes in 2010. (Note: not the same thing as paying no taxes. Most are retired or did pay payroll taxes)

    This list also includes deployed combat troops. Since Zimmer agreed with Romney, this means that Zimmer believed DEPLOYED COMBAT TROOPS can never be convinced to take responsibilitu for themselves. I find Zimmers opinion to be appaling.
    What did Romney actually say?

    Did he not say that 47% of the people will vote for Obama no matter what? Was he not right?

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    What did Romney actually say?

    Did he not say that 47% of the people will vote for Obama no matter what? Was he not right?
    The number was accurate. What was appalling was the insinuation that deployed combat troops "can't be convinced to take responsibility for themselves." Do you think that? Do you think people who pay no federal income taxes are leeches on society? Including retired seniors, deployed combat troops, and working Americans who still pay payroll taxes?

    Or maybe you think he didn't mean that. Maybe you think using "47%" and the phrase "these are people who pay no income taxes" and the fact that exactly 47% of Americans hadn't paid federal income taxes in a recently-circulating talking point was all a coincidence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The number was accurate. What was appalling was the insinuation that deployed combat troops "can't be convinced to take responsibility for themselves." Do you think that? Do you think people who pay no federal income taxes are leeches on society? Including retired seniors, deployed combat troops, and working Americans who still pay payroll taxes?

    Or maybe you think he didn't mean that. Maybe you think using "47%" and the phrase "these are people who pay no income taxes" and the fact that exactly 47% of Americans hadn't paid federal income taxes in a recently-circulating talking point was all a coincidence.
    I think if we want to be honest we will agree that he was discussing his strategy for determining where and when to fight. He did say that 47% of the people will vote for Obama no matter what. I cannot recall him saying that deployed troops (most are not combat troops, most are combat support or service support) would not vote for him. Nor seniors. Those are words you and others like you have chosen to put your spin on what he did say.

    We both know that about half of Americans are shiftless, lazy and look forward to socialism. About half of Americans are takers. That does not include retired seniors (although some are takers). It does not include the military. They are paying with their service.

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    Re: Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by BMCM View Post
    I keep hearing about this form. Where can I see a copy of it. I've never seen my Dr use one nor have I ever been asked if i own a gun. I was there yesterday for some flu meds and the only things he asked was how long have I been coughing and things like that, nothing about guns
    I can certainly understand the posters concerns, and I am thinking he is referring to a DSM. However, based on the contact I have with this area, I think it would be highly unlikely that doctors, or mental health professionals, would identify a patient as a risk unless there was a real reason to be concerned. having counseling for stress management isn't likely to be a trigger. more likely, the doctor might ask some follow up questions relating to how things are going and considering THOSE responses.

    that said, I think if a case arises where a tragedy happens and a doctor had not identified the risk, there may be calls to tighten it further. the best bet is to ensure that doctors and health professionals get ongoing professional development to minimize the likelihood of mistakes.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

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