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Thread: 15-Year Old Boy Uses AR-15 to Defend Himself, Sister Against Home Invaders

  1. #111
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    Re: 15-Year Old Boy Uses AR-15 to Defend Himself, Sister Against Home Invaders

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    The problem is that I think you watch the news and are scared all too more often. I went through a bloody Balkan war where unarmed old people, women, children, were in deed being killed, raped, burned, and their possessions were taken away and burned by Serbian forces. This was not a rare happening like this one but it was a daily routine for 77 days.

    But even I do not go crying in hysteria and panic as much as you do. When you cry out like that in fear you make it sound like there is such a Balkan war going on in USA. These two thugs choose to attack what they may perceive a "weak" house with only two adolescents living there. It is not like families with adults in them are being systematically targeted from thugs who now have advanced to using home invasions, is it?

    You are overgeneralizing from a single case and call me apathetic and that I do not care about these adolescents. That is a groundless presumption. I told you to calm down from panicking like in a manner someone close to you would do by slapping you back into your senses (the technique though vulgar works). Not that I do not care about these adolescents.

    So my comments are not about the gun issue that it seems never to get old in USA. It is about you trying to influence everyone here to panic and get them to have guns with your emotional appeals to fear. They should not work to people who use reason for they should be able to see various flaws of overgeneralisation based on single case used as a flawed analogy.

    That this case may somehow be applied to all other people in USA requires statistical data.

    Whether other people in USA have only and only one solution from threat (apart from buying guns) if they want to be saved from a certain harm - and that of course is to buy guns, is also flawed for one can think of many alternatives to protect oneself.
    The other alternatives I am partial to have shall we say, a tendency to create severe collateral damage.
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  2. #112
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    Re: 15-Year Old Boy Uses AR-15 to Defend Himself, Sister Against Home Invaders

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Personal self defense on the street...perhaps. There is a reason why SWAT teams dont train to enter and sweep homes and structures using pistolas. They use those same AR15s (or a tactical .308, or some other variant).

    Different strokes. Some prefer handguns (and then we can have the dialogue about the 'best' home defense caliber). Some prefer tactical shotguns. Some rifles.

    In combat scenarios the common saying is you use your handgun to fight your way to your rifle. In the cited scenario, young man handled himself more than admirably using a more than adequate weapon.
    SWAT teams? LOL The vast majority of Americans are not SWAT teams and for the vast majoriyt of the population a handgun is the weapon of choice for personal self defense both at home and on the street. We're not talking about SWAT teams and combat we're talking about that little old lady next door and that family down the street and handguns are their weapon of choice. We don't need combat weapons in our communitees...we are not at war.

    But since you mentioned it, what is the best caliber handgun for home defense?

  3. #113
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    Re: 15-Year Old Boy Uses AR-15 to Defend Himself, Sister Against Home Invaders

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    The other alternatives I am partial to have shall we say, a tendency to create severe collateral damage.
    You mean like an electric fense or something?
    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
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  4. #114
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    Re: 15-Year Old Boy Uses AR-15 to Defend Himself, Sister Against Home Invaders

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    SWAT teams? LOL The vast majority of Americans are not SWAT teams and for the vast majoriyt of the population a handgun is the weapon of choice for personal self defense both at home and on the street. We're not talking about SWAT teams and combat we're talking about that little old lady next door and that family down the street and handguns are their weapon of choice. We don't need combat weapons in our communitees...we are not at war.

    But since you mentioned it, what is the best caliber handgun for home defense?
    Not the point...the point is that IS what SWAT teams, tactical teams, police officers, military personnel etc ALL use for clearing homes and there is a REASON for that. The AR15 is not a 'combat weapon', it is a hunting weapon that works also very well for home defense.

    As for home defense...or personal defense, it all depends on individual taste and personal preference. I have a red dot 45 carbine that would work just fine for sweeping a home. So does my 8 round riot gun. My Ruger 45s work quite well. My daughter prefers the .45...her husband the 9mm. Some love the .40. I wouldnt recommend a .22lr, but if thats all that I had I wouldnt toss it aside. I wouldnt own a Desert Eagle but hey...different strokes. You said you ran out and bought a handgun during the LA riots...right? What did you buy?

    The best weapon for defense is the one you can access quickly and use confidently and accurately.

  5. #115
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    Re: 15-Year Old Boy Uses AR-15 to Defend Himself, Sister Against Home Invaders

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    SWAT teams? LOL The vast majority of Americans are not SWAT teams and for the vast majoriyt of the population a handgun is the weapon of choice for personal self defense both at home and on the street. We're not talking about SWAT teams and combat we're talking about that little old lady next door and that family down the street and handguns are their weapon of choice. We don't need combat weapons in our communitees...we are not at war.

    But since you mentioned it, what is the best caliber handgun for home defense?
    depends on many things

    if you are an average sized woman who doesn't train a lot and would not have to search your home to protect a child but rather can barricade yourself in a room while calling the Po Po a 20 G shotgun would be the best choice. If you have small children and (God help you if you have to do this-its extremely dangerous) go to the child(ren) and protect them then a handgun of at least 38 Special or 9mm with a flashlight attached is probably the best choice for moving throughout a house. its easy for a criminal to take a shotgun away from someone who does not have lots of training in how to move through close quarter structures with a long gun

    since concealment is not at issue in a home-you want a heavy pistol to soak up recoil that has plenty of stopping power. a 7 or 8 shot 357 revolver is very reliable (and can shoot milder 38 special rounds which can be plenty effective).

    as to combat weapons-police are not at combat and if they are issued certain weapons they are for defense against criminals rather than weapons of war

  6. #116
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    Re: 15-Year Old Boy Uses AR-15 to Defend Himself, Sister Against Home Invaders

    Here's the deal. The point of the article was to show that the AR-15 isn't the problem. The gun doesn't walk into a school and start shooting, people do. The gun isn't inherently evil, as many in the press are trying to portray it, the people are. In the right hands, it can and does save lives. So we are faced with a problem, ban the gun (and others like it) and face the consequences of violated rights and lost lives or keep the gun and face the consequences of lost lives. Either way, you still have innocent people dying at the hands of evil people. If you think any school shooting wouldn't happen if we banned these types of weapons think again.
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    Re: 15-Year Old Boy Uses AR-15 to Defend Himself, Sister Against Home Invaders

    Quote Originally Posted by BMCM View Post
    I think the biggest issue is the Mental Health issues in this country. If you look at these types of shootings all the perpetrators have all had Mental Health issues that were just ignored either by their Doctors or their families. This whole Gun issue is just a knee jerk reaction.
    I'm kind of leaning that way too, it seems to be a common denominator but I'm only familiar with the columbine and sandy hook shootings.
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    Re: 15-Year Old Boy Uses AR-15 to Defend Himself, Sister Against Home Invaders

    Quote Originally Posted by DDD View Post
    You mean like an electric fense or something?
    Or something.
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  9. #119
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    Re: 15-Year Old Boy Uses AR-15 to Defend Himself, Sister Against Home Invaders

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Either way, you still have innocent people dying at the hands of evil people. If you think any school shooting wouldn't happen if we banned these types of weapons think again.
    What about escalation of arms and where does it stop? Violence overall cannot be stopped, I agree, but I think it's all aimed at reducing the overall risk. Recall hollywood shootout, where some guys saw a Hollywood movie which arguably did the most damage (Heat was the movie that inspired them), and they used assualt rifles. For the AK-47s, I think they modified them to be fully automatic with some minor bench work. They then put on body armor and had a movie-style shootout after robbing a bank. Their weapons and ammo far outgunned the entire police force opposing them. They shot more rounds I believe, and it pierced the cops car doors, body armor, etc. Likewise, their own body armor, resisted countless shots from the cops low relatively low powered weaponry.

    It can be argued both ways. That the fact that law enforcement just had .38, 9mm, and shotguns, was part of the problem OR that such legally available ARs made it far more deadly than it otherwise would have been. The issue with up-arming the police is additional cost, training, and the additional risk in general to the public. Arms race is that the danger is as you note ALWAYS there. The violence will never go away, period. The question is, do you want to set up an arms race which traditionally just ramps up the destructive capacity for all parties (including criminals), and costs the society that supports it more and more resources? Or do you resist the animal instinct to engage in an arms race, and while the violence doesn't go away, its overall cost and destructive capacity is reduced.
    (the two guys were eventually taken out, in part because SWAT came in with some AR15s)

    Now, that's partially devil's advocate, I'm just so tired of reading complete **** from the anti-gun crowd debaters that I have to take their side just to see if I can learn something on this issue from their point of view..

  10. #120
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    Re: 15-Year Old Boy Uses AR-15 to Defend Himself, Sister Against Home Invaders

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Immediately following the Sandy Hook shooting there was a GREAT opportunity for a national dialogue on weapons security. That shooting occurred because the mother, KNOWING her son was unstable, left weapons in her home unsecured. THAT should have been discussed.

    I have a 900 pound gun safe in my sub basement (yes...thats a vault...below even my basement). All except two firearms are secured in that safe and of the two that arent, one is either on me or both are in locations, separate from but accessible to the ammunition in case of emergency. There are several pepper-foam canisters at different locations but that is non lethal defense and at worst, someone gets into them accidentally and they are just having a very bad day. I dont have kids in my home and when grandkids are over those weapons are secured as well. People dont HAVE to have gun safes, but they should have a means of keeping their WEAPONS safe. In a home were people are unstable, extra precautions should be made.

    That shooting could have been prevented had the mother of a mentally unstable 20 year old taken basic precautions. THAT conversation should have taken place but it never did because people were in such a huge rush to seize the opportunity to pass gun bans.
    That's a good point.

    I come from a family of responsible gun owners, I don't think that any of them has or had a sub-basement to store them but I don't know I never really saw them growing up. My cousins who actually were interested in going to the shooting range were taught how to handle them properly and responsibly and there was always an adult present.

    Personally I don't like them but they're not going away and 'bad' people are not going to all of the sudden relinquish their weapons if we decide to start taking them away from responsible (law abiding) gun owners or just seriously limiting access to them. Maybe there should be more gun control, it probably should be looked at by each state but I don't really know.

    I think you're right though dialogue after Sandy Hook should have been about weapon security, I think it also should have been about what makes someone take a gun into a school and shoot little kids because your average 'bad' guy wouldn't do that either.
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