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New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

Re: We're Number......LAST

Keep in mind, that societal factors, obesity rates, diabetes, high cholesterol, poor diet and others (all of which we lead the world in) also have a factor in the cost and the statistics of our healthcare. If you cannot realize that, then you are just being simple minded.

And if you don't realize that this is precisely why healthcare is there: to cure diabetes and high choloestoral and all the collateral damages of obesity and poor diet, then you are just being simple minded.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

And if you don't realize that this is precisely why healthcare is there: to cure diabetes and high choloestoral and all the collateral damages of obesity and poor diet, then you are just being simple minded.

But, diabetes, high cholesterol, and the collateral damages of obesity and poor diet can't be cured without some effort on the part of the patient.

So, we must continue to use the "Americans are too fat, and that's the cause of the health care crisis" argument to ignore the fact that the current health care system is bankrupting the country and therefore do nothing about it.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

And if you don't realize that this is precisely why healthcare is there: to cure diabetes and high choloestoral and all the collateral damages of obesity and poor diet, then you are just being simple minded.

Nice attempt to redirect. However, in context, your interpretation, has absolutely nothing to do with what was actually written, since I was addressing some of the factors causing the difference in statistics, not why healthcare exists.

Do you actually have any arguments about what was written?
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

But, diabetes, high cholesterol, and the collateral damages of obesity and poor diet can't be cured without some effort on the part of the patient.

So, we must continue to use the "Americans are too fat, and that's the cause of the health care crisis" argument to ignore the fact that the current health care system is bankrupting the country and therefore do nothing about it.
Yes, I agree with what you are saying ... But the responsibility of the patient can easily be worked into a insurance policy. With a system of bonus and malus for examples. In Germany there are many incentives for patients to do a couple of things, like go to the doctor regularly, otherwise they need to pay more money ...
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Nice attempt to redirect. However, in context, your interpretation, has absolutely nothing to do with what was actually written, since I was addressing some of the factors causing the difference in statistics, not why healthcare exists.

Do you actually have any arguments about what was written?
I am not redirecting. And if I am it's because I am bringing in an argument.

Do you actually have any argument about what I am stating?
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

I am not redirecting. And if I am it's because I am bringing in an argument.

Do you actually have any argument about what I am stating?

Regardless of why healthcare exists, there is no reason to assume that someone who has not earned it, deserves it.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Yes, I agree with what you are saying ... But the responsibility of the patient can easily be worked into a insurance policy. With a system of bonus and malus for examples. In Germany there are many incentives for patients to do a couple of things, like go to the doctor regularly, otherwise they need to pay more money ...

Yes, it could be and should be, but isn't.

at least not in any insurance policy I'm familiar with.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Yes, it could be and should be, but isn't.

at least not in any insurance policy I'm familiar with.
Well, what I think - but this is only an assumption based on the experience I made here in Germany - private insurances will only let healthy patients in ... There is no reason to have "bonus" and "malus" then. This is something for general health care systems ...
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Regardless of why healthcare exists, there is no reason to assume that someone who has not earned it, deserves it.
I don't know what "deserve" means in the context of health ...

Do you deserve to get lung cancer when you are a non-smoker and have led a healthy life until the decease fell upon you? Do you deserve to get a car accident because there was a ghost driver on the highway? I am speaking of a real cases here.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Well, what I think - but this is only an assumption based on the experience I made here in Germany - private insurances will only let healthy patients in ... There is no reason to have "bonus" and "malus" then. This is something for general health care systems ...

But Germany does have health care for unhealthy people as well, does it not?

Here's what we need:
A universal health insurance package that is really insurance, and not a pre paid health care plan.
One that is paid for by taxes, run by a private company, and regulated by the government, a public/private hybrid, sort of like the power companies we have in California.
One that requires the patient to pay based on a formula that includes income and health conditions that are the result of individual decisions.

For example: Insurance kicks in after the patient has paid out 10% of his income for medical care. If the patient's BMI is lower than 25, however, then the percentage drops to 8%. If the patient is a non smoker, that drops it another percent or two.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

But Germany does have health care for unhealthy people as well, does it not?

Here's what we need:
A universal health insurance package that is really insurance, and not a pre paid health care plan.
One that is paid for by taxes, run by a private company, and regulated by the government, a public/private hybrid, sort of like the power companies we have in California.
One that requires the patient to pay based on a formula that includes income and health conditions that are the result of individual decisions.

For example: Insurance kicks in after the patient has paid out 10% of his income for medical care. If the patient's BMI is lower than 25, however, then the percentage drops to 8%. If the patient is a non smoker, that drops it another percent or two.
Yes, Germany takes everybody in ... In fact, since there are different "Kassen", it has created financial problems to one of them, the AOK which was, so to say, the one for the "left-overs" or the "uniformed". The people insured there were also paying the highest fee (since their risk was higher). They harmonized all fees a couple of years ago and this solved the problem.

I actually agree that a sound system should encourage the patient and the fee should be lower if a number of criteria are met. (But await resistance from the fats and the smokers who will cry against discrimination!). Regarding income, what do you do with those with 1) no income 2) those with very high income

In Germany, for example 1) is being handled by the university or the job center or the corresponding social institution 2) is being met by allowing people from a certain yearly income to opt out of the general system and buy a private insurance.

My last question is: how does Obamacare fits into this?
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Why do you think that? there are 12 million people trying and failing to get jobs, so why would people who don't want to work make an abundance of jobs?

That wasn't my question.

So you got 12 million people trying and failing to get jobs with the job opportunity where it is, my question remains.
THERE ARE LESS JOBS WHY?
Because according to some but many a huge majority of unemployed are not even trying to find a job.
Now I can not quote the exact number but since you have 12 million people trying and failing to find jobs ,lets say 12 million not looking for jobs or not trying.

If my math is correct if the ones that are not looking all started to look at the same time., that's 24 million people looking for work when 12 million can't find work.

Question does America want everybody out of work to start looking at the same time from ages 18 to 63 ?:peace
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Yes, Germany takes everybody in ... In fact, since there are different "Kassen", it has created financial problems to one of them, the AOK which was, so to say, the one for the "left-overs" or the "uniformed". The people insured there were also paying the highest fee (since their risk was higher). They harmonized all fees a couple of years ago and this solved the problem.

I actually agree that a sound system should encourage the patient and the fee should be lower if a number of criteria are met. (But await resistance from the fats and the smokers who will cry against discrimination!). Regarding income, what do you do with those with 1) no income 2) those with very high income

In Germany, for example 1) is being handled by the university or the job center or the corresponding social institution 2) is being met by allowing people from a certain yearly income to opt out of the general system and buy a private insurance.

My last question is: how does Obamacare fits into this?

No doubt there would be resistance from people whose lifestyles cost the medical care system more money, but why should I pay for someone who smokes and never exercises? Let them change their lifestyle, or pay extra.

How does Obamacare fit in? Now, that's a good question. The mandate that everyone have insurance would still have to be there. The very wealthy, or just those who object to any sort of government funded program would have the option of private insurance.

Everyone has some income. Even the very poor should have to pay at least a token, as that which is free is seen as having no value.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Here's what we need:
A universal health insurance package that is really insurance, and not a pre paid health care plan.
One that is paid for by taxes, run by a private company, and regulated by the government, a public/private hybrid, sort of like the power companies we have in California.
One that requires the patient to pay based on a formula that includes income...
Pretty much Obamacare in a nutshell. But it is a transition stage on the way to something better.

...and health conditions that are the result of individual decisions.
You don't have a means for making the connections you need as you would if you were concerned with imposing premiums on sky-divers and coal miners. Insurance is about risk-sharing. Cut that element out and you just move further and further toward every man for himself.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

No doubt there would be resistance from people whose lifestyles cost the medical care system more money, but why should I pay for someone who smokes and never exercises? Let them change their lifestyle, or pay extra.

How does Obamacare fit in? Now, that's a good question. The mandate that everyone have insurance would still have to be there. The very wealthy, or just those who object to any sort of government funded program would have the option of private insurance.

Everyone has some income. Even the very poor should have to pay at least a token, as that which is free is seen as having no value.

I have a question.

Which would be more expensive to the American people universal health care or what we have now?:peace
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

So you got 12 million people trying and failing to get jobs with the job opportunity where it is, my question remains. THERE ARE LESS JOBS WHY?
That isn't even a question. There are fewer jobs because of the damage done by the Great Bush Recession. Employment was at 146.6 million and then it fell to 138.0 million. We have so far made it back to 143.3 million.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

I have a question. Which would be more expensive to the American people universal health care or what we have now?:peace
Let me ask first whether you think a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage is cheaper, or whether you'd rather have a nice reverse-amortization, giant-balloon-payment instrument that you can never refinance instead?
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

That isn't even a question. There are fewer jobs because of the damage done by the Great Bush Recession. Employment was at 146.6 million and then it fell to 138.0 million. We have so far made it back to 143.3 million.

Well I better check with my English teacher, I could have sworn that sentence was a question.:peace
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Let me ask first whether you think a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage is cheaper, or whether you'd rather have a nice reverse-amortization, giant-balloon-payment instrument that you can never refinance instead?

Well in answer to your question we already have a giant balloon payment the more people that are unemployed the more people turn to Medicare and medicade.

Now since I've answered your question perhaps you can answer mine.:peace
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

I have a question.

Which would be more expensive to the American people universal health care or what we have now?:peace

What we have now, no question about it. Every other modern nation on Earth has universal health care, and we pay more than any of them by far.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Pretty much Obamacare in a nutshell. But it is a transition stage on the way to something better.


You don't have a means for making the connections you need as you would if you were concerned with imposing premiums on sky-divers and coal miners. Insurance is about risk-sharing. Cut that element out and you just move further and further toward every man for himself.

People who live unhealthy lifestyles and/or who engage in risky pursuits pay more for life insurance than the rest of us do. Why couldn't the same apply to health insurance?
 
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