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New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

Re: We're Number......LAST

As long as you think it's cool to be paying $7 a gallon for plain-vanilla off-brand regular while the rest of the world pays $4 a gallon for premium with all the additives. How many times are right-wingres willing to shoot themselves in the foot anyway? Is there a limit?

Don't know, I'm not a right winger.

BTW. What does the price of gas have to do with medical care?
 
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Re: We're Number......LAST

The point is, there are more costs than the economic. Some folks are willing to pay them, some aren't. A lot of people here in the US aren't. That's why UHC will be a long time coming here.
It's been already voted, right?
Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When it comes to health, I just wonder which other costs there are other than the "economic"?
A cancer is a cancer. An efficient health care system is efficient when it provides:
- the best possible care allowed by the advance of medical knowledge
- at the most affordable cost
- for the most possible people
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

It's been already voted, right?
Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When it comes to health, I just wonder which other costs there are other than the "economic"?
A cancer is a cancer. An efficient health care system is efficient when it provides:
- the best possible care allowed by the advance of medical knowledge
- at the most affordable cost
- for the most possible people

Go back and read your posts in this thread and my responses, that will answer your questions. Asked and answered.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

It's been already voted, right?
Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When it comes to health, I just wonder which other costs there are other than the "economic"?
A cancer is a cancer. An efficient health care system is efficient when it provides:
- the best possible care allowed by the advance of medical knowledge
- at the most affordable cost
- for the most possible people

Ok, you previously denied knowing about some new technologies that are fairly common in the US but then claim that Germany has an efficient system of "best possible care allowed by the advance of medical knowledge". So which is it?

Cheapest is not always best. A German should know that, as in the auto industry they only survive by being better even though the costs are high.

For the most people that earn it. Wasting valuable resources on the indigent and those that won't earn it is just that, wasting valuable limited resources. Further, it weakens humanity as a whole when you pander to the lazy and weak instead of setting up a system to strengthen them and makes them not lazy.

US care is usually pretty darn good. Maybe a few hospitals in low income areas are not as good as middle class and high income areas, but over all, very good. Considering the differences in the two societies, the very fact that we have the statistics we have while being so self-destructive is a good indicator of just how good our system is. How would your system hold up with a peoples who are as self-destructive as Americans?
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Ok, you previously denied knowing about some new technologies that are fairly common in the US but then claim that Germany has an efficient system of "best possible care allowed by the advance of medical knowledge". So which is it?

Cheapest is not always best. A German should know that, as in the auto industry they only survive by being better even though the costs are high.

For the most people that earn it. Wasting valuable resources on the indigent and those that won't earn it is just that, wasting valuable limited resources. Further, it weakens humanity as a whole when you pander to the lazy and weak instead of setting up a system to strengthen them and makes them not lazy.

US care is usually pretty darn good. Maybe a few hospitals in low income areas are not as good as middle class and high income areas, but over all, very good. Considering the differences in the two societies, the very fact that we have the statistics we have while being so self-destructive is a good indicator of just how good our system is. How would your system hold up with a peoples who are as self-destructive as Americans?
It's not because I do not know robot x, y or z, that Germany has no good health care system. I am not so much into technology, you know, but this does not mean other people than me don't use them :roll:

German health care is pretty damm good you know and all across the board.

Cheapest is not always best except when it offers you premium service.

I think that Germany fullfills my three conditions:
best technology and medecine available,
affordable costs for the entire population,
regardless of their income, gender or race :)
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Go back and read your posts in this thread and my responses, that will answer your questions. Asked and answered.
Which question? I answered your question but did not ask any.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Which question? I answered your question but did not ask any.

Don't play games, I quote what I respond to. There were two questions you asked in the quote (included below for clarity) that you had asked of me before in this thread and were answered before in this thread.

Originally Posted by Sucre
It's been already voted, right?
Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When it comes to health, I just wonder which other costs there are other than the "economic"?
A cancer is a cancer. An efficient health care system is efficient when it provides:
- the best possible care allowed by the advance of medical knowledge
- at the most affordable cost
- for the most possible people
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Don't play games, I quote what I respond to. There were two questions you asked in the quote (included below for clarity) that you had asked of me before in this thread and were answered before in this thread.
These questions were "rhetorical" i.e ... just for style. In fact I answer them myself - with a link and with providing the three elements of a premium health care (which you are free to dispute of course).
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

These questions were "rhetorical" i.e ... just for style. In fact I answer them myself - with a link and with providing the three elements of a premium health care (which you are free to dispute of course).

Well, then your "rhetorical" have been asked and answered and in this thread.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

I agree jobs are the first priority! At some point though we will have to address unaffordable health care costs though that are driving people with jobs into bankruptcy.

Each time Health care has been tried to be upgraded some politician says that's Communism or Socialism and American health care gets passed to the next generation like a bum passing the last draw of a smoke.

For health care to be upgraded or even addressed you will need more of an Independent political process.:peace
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

At some point people will no longer be able to bear the costs and we will have upgrade as the rest of the industrialized world has done.

That is my wish as well my friend, but how far down must Americans go before that point is reached.:peace
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Exactly. The pay for service model simply can't survive in a modern economy driven by technological innovation. We know why -- there is no price elasticity in health care, and there are huge information imbalances between consumers and suppliers. It's the wrong model. It's failing and will fail. It's sad how conservatives are so completely ideologically rabid that they refuse to accept economic reality.

You will get no debate on that post from this poster.:peace
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

That is my wish as well my friend, but how far down must Americans go before that point is reached.:peace

Well, we'll never know, because now, all the previously insured folks will remember is that they paid less and were happier with what they had. Premiums were on the rise, but they hadn't risen to the level of hurt yet (for the person already insured), AND any rise could be blamed on the ramp up to Obamacare.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Well, we'll never know, because now, all the previously insured folks will remember is that they paid less and were happier with what they had. Premiums were on the rise, but they hadn't risen to the level of hurt yet (for the person already insured), AND any rise could be blamed on the ramp up to Obamacare.

Well, first of all I think you have me confused with some party line walker , not true Independent voter and proud of it.
As far as Obamacare or as I liked to call it INSURANCE AD, true it is a bad plan.

As far as all the previous folks insured will remember that they paid less and were happier with premiums they had.
The previous folks had jobs paying a decent wage , keyword here HAD.

So if your job gets outsourced your insurance will either be cheaper or go on hold to meet your basic needs.

Too much , check the amount of houses reposessed lately.
Check the more people applying for medicare and medicade
Check the credit card debt in America.:peace
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Each time Health care has been tried to be upgraded some politician says that's Communism or Socialism and American health care gets passed to the next generation like a bum passing the last draw of a smoke.

For health care to be upgraded or even addressed you will need more of an Independent political process.:peace

We are getting there! It will be even better after 2014. :)
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

That is my wish as well my friend, but how far down must Americans go before that point is reached.:peace

I think 2014 will be the turning point. :)
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Well, first of all I think you have me confused with some party line walker , not true Independent voter and proud of it.
As far as Obamacare or as I liked to call it INSURANCE AD, true it is a bad plan.

As far as all the previous folks insured will remember that they paid less and were happier with premiums they had.
The previous folks had jobs paying a decent wage , keyword here HAD.

So if your job gets outsourced your insurance will either be cheaper or go on hold to meet your basic needs.

Too much , check the amount of houses reposessed lately.
Check the more people applying for medicare and medicade
Check the credit card debt in America.:peace

No I understand. Just saying that for the large majority (and it was a large majority) that were insured, were not to the place yet where they wanted to rebel against the system, wanted something different. And now, we'll never know if they would have, because the problems from here on will be blamed on Obamacare.

And I agree of course. Obamacare==bad news. But then Obamacare is not UHC.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

We are getting there! It will be even better after 2014. :)

I have always been an optomistic person you know that Cat.

However even Idolistic dreamers have their bad days, and I must say these are it for me.

It's not this party or that party it's not the way politics are done.
I fear it's the whole DAMN SYSTEM that is failing Americans as well as Americans themselves are getting wrapped up in the same crap :no need for me to take care of anything the next generation can pay off my debts, the next generation can find Alternative fuel , the next generation can get people working again, the next generation and the next and the next...ect,ect:peace
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

I have always been an optomistic person you know that Cat.

However even Idolistic dreamers have their bad days, and I must say these are it for me.

It's not this party or that party it's not the way politics are done.
I fear it's the whole DAMN SYSTEM that is failing Americans as well as Americans themselves are getting wrapped up in the same crap :no need for me to take care of anything the next generation can pay off my debts, the next generation can find Alternative fuel , the next generation can get people working again, the next generation and the next and the next...ect,ect:peace

Societal evolution is a very slow process my friend. Don't lose your optimism!
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

I have always been an optomistic person you know that Cat.

However even Idolistic dreamers have their bad days, and I must say these are it for me.

It's not this party or that party it's not the way politics are done.
I fear it's the whole DAMN SYSTEM that is failing Americans as well as Americans themselves are getting wrapped up in the same crap :no need for me to take care of anything the next generation can pay off my debts, the next generation can find Alternative fuel , the next generation can get people working again, the next generation and the next and the next...ect,ect:peace

That's a by-product of Liberalism.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

No I understand. Just saying that for the large majority (and it was a large majority) that were insured, were not to the place yet where they wanted to rebel against the system, wanted something different. And now, we'll never know if they would have, because the problems from here on will be blamed on Obamacare.

And I agree of course. Obamacare==bad news. But then Obamacare is not UHC.

A majority of who.
The majority of people living in America are unskilled workers unskilled work is being outsourced
America posted the creation of 700,000 new jobs
We have amnesty for 800,000 illegal immigrants.
Do the math?
Who is the majority and who is the minority in America ?
Hint think 10%,:peace
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Societal evolution is a very slow process my friend. Don't lose your optimism!

I will agree it has been slow but not as slow as the past 12 years.:peace
 
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