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New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

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Conservatives just get weirder and weirder. Now a debate about healthcare turns into proclamations about how brave rightwingers are in the face of death. I say, fine, don't seek medical care and let the rest of us take care of ourselves and kids with a rational single payer system. You guys can wither away in the corner, heroically.

I think "you guys" would turn out to be Tigger, all alone.
 
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Conservatives just get weirder and weirder. Now a debate about healthcare turns into proclamations about how brave rightwingers are in the face of death. I say, fine, don't seek medical care and let the rest of us take care of ourselves and kids with a rational single payer system. You guys can wither away in the corner, heroically.

Better DEAD than RED, joaguin; and those seem to be the only two options you people want to have available anymore.
 
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I feel a need to point out the poor reporting methods of "civilized" western nations. That is very important when it comes to things like stillborns and such,
Are you an expert on data reporting systems? Have you done research into the effectiveness of health data reporting systems of western nations? How many things are there that are "like" stillbirth? What are they? Why are these things a particular problem?

I would also point to some of this as evidence of our inner city problems. We have so much inner city poverty it is tough to do anything.
Maybe your focus is a little off. There are many more health care resources within a stone's throw of any inner city resident than there are for a rural resident. The countryside isn't wealthy or densely populated enough to support GP's, much less medical specialties or significant hospital resources. This is why we have a rural health care crisis.

Why? We have 304 million citizens. A lot harder to realistically handle that,
This is an imaginary excuse. The population of the EU is substantially larger than that of the US. They are culturally diverse and speak 23 different languages. As a group, they receive better overall health care than we do and at lower per capita cost.
 
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Scales will be a huge issue for any kind of free health care in the United States.
No one is proposing free health care anywhere.

We have have so many people that would probably abuse the system (as it is now...emergency services get abused horrifically...hence $800 bills just to ride in an ambulance). The COST would be the biggest problem. As it is now...how much of the cost is handled through that wonderful...albeit irritating...capitalist scheme of insurance?
The usual finger-pointing fish stories and old wives' tales.
 
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Not a good example I am afraid. The USPS is bleeding money at the moment. Their problem is the internet and competition that is vastly more efficient than they are. I have a hunch the USPS will not be around a few years from now. At least not as we know it.
I'm sure you're on top of the situation and all, but USPS still gets a letter from one American to any other in two days for 45 cents. The fact that idiots in Congress have saddled them and them alone with an obligation to invest billions in prefunding retiree health benefits is not material to the fact. I wish them well in refusals to make those payments.
 
We're Number......LAST

Are you an expert on data reporting systems? Have you done research into the effectiveness of health data reporting systems of western nations? How many things are there that are "like" stillbirth? What are they? Why are these things a particular problem?


Maybe your focus is a little off. There are many more health care resources within a stone's throw of any inner city resident than there are for a rural resident. The countryside isn't wealthy or densely populated enough to support GP's, much less medical specialties or significant hospital resources. This is why we have a rural health care crisis.


This is an imaginary excuse. The population of the EU is substantially larger than that of the US. They are culturally diverse and speak 23 different languages. As a group, they receive better overall health care than we do and at lower per capita cost.

1) all it takes is a simple statistics course to understand that when comparing data...you must take into account if reporting methods are different. That doesn't take data analysis expertise. Since you wish to use U.N. numbers I feel you need to be made aware that such numbers are acquired from respective national reporting centers. So where standards of reporting are different (and United States is amongst the highest in standards) then how can you compare them as equals?

Let me guess. You won't accept that common knowledge fact right? Don't worry. Once I get home I will provide you with some websites (cell phone is hard to do that with).

2) and yet there are far more people to use up resources, and where there is more inner city there is more poverty. Poverty certainly doesn't help ones health care chances does it? Rural health care sucks. No doubt. But don't you think that poverty is a factor? How much poverty and budget sucking inner city problems do they have in Europe?

3) yes. They do as a group. Now break it down into nations. Unless the EU finally merged into one nation...I'm not concerned about them as a group. My point remains valid.
 
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Sadly they can't deliver that letter for 45 cents, not without the occasional infusion of cash from elsewhere.
Elsewhere? You mean USPS has a Sugar Daddy? Do tell!
 
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I remember back in the US I had to get an MRI on my knee and it took 2 months to finally get there, by that time it had mostly healed and showed nothing, so they didn't do anything for me. Even though the Xray I got the day after showed how swollen it was. And that was in the Army, which is supposed to be faster (though not necessarily better) medical care than the civilian world.

Here my wife got an MRI on her knee within a week.

When I became concerned that my mom had Alzheimers, I had to wait 8 weeks just to get an appt.
 
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Average male life expectancy with medical care is 17.2 years. What is it without medical care?
There aren't any statistics for "without medical care".

I will not take Government Medical, including Medicare; which means that at age 65 I lose my medical care. I'll likely be blind within 8-12 months from my glaucoma, and dead within 36 months (at the outside).
Ever the optimist. As a cancer survivor, I'm actually pretty happy with what good medical coverage made available to me.

We Conservatives don't fear Death the way that so many of you Progressives and Liberals seem to. We believe there's something more beyond this life, whereas many of you seem to feel that Death is the End. Maybe that's why we're not scared of Death like you folks are.
I haven't found fear of death to be so common among liberals and certainly not among atheists. It seems to me that such folks would pragmatically prefer to avoid death whenever possible, but fully recognize and rather matter-of-factly accept its ultimate inevitability.
 
We're Number......LAST

I remember back in the US I had to get an MRI on my knee and it took 2 months to finally get there, by that time it had mostly healed and showed nothing, so they didn't do anything for me. Even though the Xray I got the day after showed how swollen it was. And that was in the Army, which is supposed to be faster (though not necessarily better) medical care than the civilian world.

Here my wife got an MRI on her knee within a week.

Wow. Really? Funny. Private health care here and I got my MRI for my knee in the same day I went to the doctor. I actually was in with the sports medicine surgeon the same day I saw my GP. It was a torn minuscus and I was able to get arthroscopic surgery the next week (decided to wait because I had final exams and could walk with crutches).

I know a ton of horror stories from the VA. Had a friend when I was in school who could barely get in for his PTSD stuff, let alone for the reoccurring medical problems from an IED he took in Iraq.
 
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When I became concerned that my mom had Alzheimers, I had to wait 8 weeks just to get an appt.

Took my grandmother less than a month to get Alzheimer's. Did your mom not have a lot of data or evidence? A lot of medicine is about having enough information to establish a course of action. My understanding is that in the early stages other disorders can present like Alzheimer's (senility maybe? Idk now).
 
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USPS is bleeding money. Our health care system is a mess. Both are semi-run by the government. Coincidence? Or is that the government is totally unable to ever run anything efficiently or for that matter, rarely effectively. I find it funny, so many want to turn over something as important to them as Healthcare to the government with the governments track record on management.
Except in cases such as military and VA hospitals, the government actually provides health care financing, not health care. It is also health care financing that PPACA focuses on. Such problems as USPS has are not management problems. They are financial issues brought on by the Great Bush Recession and a bunch of idiots in Congress who demand that they put an unnecessary $5.5 billion in a shoebox every year.
 
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There aren't any statistics for "without medical care".

Maybe I'll be the first case study.

Ever the optimist. As a cancer survivor, I'm actually pretty happy with what good medical coverage made available to me.

Yep. I think 36 months IS pretty optimistic. It could be as little as 12-15 months without any medical care.

Congratulations on surviving your cancer. I don't plan to ever do that. My cancer plan is one dose of 230 grain copper to the head. I saw what my dad went through with that and I don't even want to consider it.

I haven't found fear of death to be so common among liberals and certainly not among atheists. It seems to me that such folks would pragmatically prefer to avoid death whenever possible, but fully recognize and rather matter-of-factly accept its ultimate inevitability.

I think we all accept that death is inevitable, Fang. The question is whether or not we go so far out of our way to avoid it that we begin to allow it to rule our lives. It's kind of the extreme end of the same line of thinking that keeps many Liberal parents from allowing their children to play sports or do anything else which might possibly cause them injury.
 
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Nope, this doesn't explain the high inflation rate of health care. You're just making stuff up now.

I'm not making anything up, it's all true. Add to the problem that the Government pays directly to the providers for medicaid, and medicare rather than let the system self regulate via competitive options, and what you end up with is people that are on a government system where there is no, not a single incentive to shop your healthcare out, thus feeding a marketplace that is no marketplace, but a regional monopoly on health services. If people had options on how to spend that money themselves through some sort of healthcare savings plan that starts from birth, we'd have a real marketplace with real capitalism going on, and we all know that when there is real competition for goods and services, the prices reflect the market conditions. Same thing applies to pharma. Government intrusion via the FDA costs these companies 100's of millions to bring a drug to market, andnthey are protected for 20 years. Well, how about we make it less expensive for them to do so, and then offer them 5 or 7 years of protection? Why do you think that big pharma was the ones that lobbied to have it this way? I'll tell you, because they've already done the math. They'd all prefer to pay 300 million to bring a drug to market, then enjoy 20 years of protection than pay 20 million and have only 5 years. Why is it that after 20 years generic drugs are distributed for pennies compared to the costs that were incurred during the "protection" phase? Also do away with the changing of a drugs description, or minor tweaking of an already existing drug into something similar but not, and then giving them another 20 years of protection.. Want an example. Take Prilosec, you know the purple pill that releive heartburn? Read up on it sparky you might learn something about why we pay so much in healthcare..


Tim-
 
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Better DEAD than RED, joaguin; and those seem to be the only two options you people want to have available anymore.

Oh, I'm sure living in a red state can't be that bad.
 
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We have the highest health care cost because we're the fattest country in the world bar none, we have the most smokers (myself included), we eat the most sugar than anyone else, and eat the most processed foods.
We have the highest health care costs in the world because we have a wasteful profit-driven, fee-for-service health care system. The factors you try to hide behind actually exist everywhere. Differences are at the margin. The US is 34th in per capita tobacco consumption by the way. The task of every health care system is to care for the health of the population. If a population is overweight, smokes too much, or consumes a lot of sugar, the health care system needs to deal with those issues. It is no different from a population that drinks beer or wine by the liter, makes everything out of potatoes, or lives in a frigid climate.
 
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Oh, I'm sure living in a red state can't be that bad.

Cute. I was thinking more in the 1950's interpretation than the current one. Having lived in Blue States my entire life, I could only WISH to live in a Red State.
 
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Cute. I was thinking more in the 1950's interpretation than the current one. Having lived in Blue States my entire life, I could only WISH to live in a Red State.

Personally, I prefer the 21st. century, but that's just me.

You do know that we won the cold war back in '91, don't you?
 
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I like how it only lists seventeen countries.

Btw, this was already known. Great news break. :roll:
 
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We have the highest health care costs in the world because we have a wasteful profit-driven, fee-for-service health care system. The factors you try to hide behind actually exist everywhere. Differences are at the margin. The US is 34th in per capita tobacco consumption by the way. The task of every health care system is to care for the health of the population. If a population is overweight, smokes too much, or consumes a lot of sugar, the health care system needs to deal with those issues. It is no different from a population that drinks beer or wine by the liter, makes everything out of potatoes, or lives in a frigid climate.

Are you going to expand on this, or am I to fill in the gaps on my own? :)

Tim-
 
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Personally, I prefer the 21st. century, but that's just me.

I prefer the 11th-13th but that's just me.

You do know that we won the cold war back in '91, don't you?

I know that America has enemies and will always have enemies. Some of them are obvious and others not so much. The wolf who is clothed in sheepskin is just as much a threat as the one who openly announces his presence in the woods.
 
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I prefer the 11th-13th but that's just me.
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I don't believe you. You like posting on the internetz to much!:2razz:
 
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