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Thread: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    While recent data from China are unclear, we are at worst now neck and neck with them as the largest manufacturing economies in the world. Of course, the number of our manufacturing jobs has declined, even as output has soared. Every one of the world's twelve largest manufacturing economies ahs lost manufacturing jobs since the mid-1990's. China in that time has lost more manufacturing jobs than the US has. US losses have been about average for the group. Like agriculture a century or so ago, manufacturing has lost any ability it may once have had to provide jobs for the masses. People need to get used to it.
    Yep. Chalk one up for efficiency/automation. It takes less workers, less time to make more things. All the unions and protectionism in the world will not change that.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  2. #72
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Yea time for single payer healthcare...


  3. #73
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I'm sure you are, too. Moreover, when you do need that insurance plan, you will also be paying more as a copay, deductible, or whatever else you must pay. The health care providers are not in business for their health, you know. If some of the patients aren't paying, the rest have to make it up. If some require more care than they can afford, then the rest of us take up the slack.

    Like it or not, that's reality.
    But, that is not to say that the gov't can't make it even worse. They could demand that not only the cost of that medical care be paid for, but add 15% to 20% more, in insurance company overhead and profit, to those direct costs of care, as well.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yep. Chalk one up for efficiency/automation. It takes less workers, less time to make more things. All the unions and protectionism in the world will not change that.
    It's just too bad that the workers we have left have not shared in the huge profits from that efficiency/automation. It's called productivity and that graph shows quite clearly the results of Reaganonmics for the last 30 years. Is that what we were told about supply side theory at the time? That all the increased profits of the computer age would go to corporations? I think just about anybody could look at that graph and see that it is usustainable for profits to keep increasng while real wages remain stagnant. Something has to give.



    By the way. that little "hop" wages took in the 90's was Clinton's economy. The only one since Reagan where all wage classes saw increases.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 01-14-13 at 12:26 AM.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    It's just too bad that the workers we have left have not shared in the huge profits from that efficiency/automation. I wonder why that is?

    Why that is, mainly, is it simply takes less skill to feed "the machine" and remove its output, than to have the skill to actually make the things that "the machine" now makes. Except for those few skilled workers that adjust/repair "the machine" the rest are mostly semi-skilled "drones" that are fairly easy to replace. A missing link in your graph is that wages (take home pay) is not the only employer cost of labor, those wonderful pension and medical care benefit "labor" costs that are not in that paycheck went up instead.

    Note the increase in employer provided medical care benefits over that 1980 - present period. Also note the cost of "defined benefit" retirement plans for past retirees, that were phased out at about that time (even the federal gov't switched from CSRS to FERS in 1986), continued to grow for those "lucky" folks that had COLA deals that kept pace with inflation. After the switch to "defined contribution", rather than "defined benefit", retirement plans the employer did not increase the salaries of those workers, but instead used the "savings" to pay (otherwise unfunded) retirement obligations to past workers "defined benefit" plans. After these "lucky" folks die off, the profits may rise enough to give decent raises to current "drone" workers (if employee health care costs permit).


    http://www.dol.gov/oasam/programs/hi...orts/costs.htm


    An Introduction to the Health Care Crisis in America: How Did We Get Here?

    http://www.oliverwyman.com/media/OW_...appens_Now.pdf
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 01-14-13 at 12:51 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Why that is, mainly, is it simply takes less skill to feed "the machine" and remove its output, than to have the skill to actually make the things that "the machine" now makes. Except for those few skilled workers that adjust/repair "the machine" the rest are mostly semi-skilled "drones" that are fairly easy to replace. A missing link in your graph is that wages (take home pay) is not the only employer cost of labor, those wonderful pension and medical care benefit "labor" costs that are not in that paycheck went up instead. Note the increase in employer provided medical care benefits over that 1980 - present period. Also note the cost of "defined benefit" retirement plans for past retirees, that were phased out at about that time (even the federal gov't switched from CSRS to FERS in 1986), continued to grow for those "lucky" folks that had COLA deals that kept pace with inflation. After the switch to "defined contribution", rather than "defined benefit", retirement plans the employer did not increase the salaries of those workers, but instead used the "savings" to pay (otherwise unfunded) retirement obligations to past workers "defined benefit" plans. After these "lucky" folks die off, the profits may rise enough to give decent raises to current "drone" workers.
    Profits are only profits AFTER all costs of labor are calculated in. The graph shows profits not gross sales. The additional money did not go to pensions it went to the CEO's and management who saw enormous increases in salaries and benefits most likely as "reward" for the huge increases in productivity that automation, stagant wage growth and reduced labor needs gave their balance sheets. And it came at such a conveinient time, rates for high earners had just been slashed and those executives could sock away alot of that money for themselves. Wasn't that nice of the US Govt? Now the top 5% have "socked away" over $40 Trillion and the Govt. is broke and needs to cut it's budget.
    How did that happen?

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Profits are only profits AFTER all costs of labor are calculated in. The graph shows profits not gross sales. The additional money did not go to pensions it went to the CEO's and management who saw enormous increases in salaries and benefits most likely as "reward" for the huge increases in productivity that automation, stagant wage growth and reduced labor needs gave their balance sheets. And it came at such a conveinient time, rates for high earners had just been slashed and those executives could sock away alot of that money for themselves. Wasn't that nice of the US Govt? Now the top 5% have "socked away" over $40 Trillion and the Govt. is broke and needs to cut it's budget.
    How did that happen?
    Are you kidding me? Productivity does not equal profit. CEO and management COSTS are not PROFIT (or productivity). Get a grip on reality. Supply your source for this assertion, that productivity = profit nonsense.

    The standard measure of productivity is total economic output divided by hours spent on labor.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-higher-wages/
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 01-14-13 at 01:15 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

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    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Im not going to take this one study as gospel...I would have to see figures from other organizations

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    If someone thinks other countries have such great healthcare, go see. I did, it's not so great in Europe.
    Anecdote versus actual statistics. That's the difference.

    In real health outcomes "socialized" medicine in Europe outpaces our pay for service system in every category. The rational conclusion is theirs is better.

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