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Thread: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

  1. #591
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    I agree the problem with outsourcing can be easily solved.
    Sure, just agree to pay a bunch of higher prices instead. We voted on that. Outsourcing won. Higher prices lost.

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    However GDP growth in a capitalist country such as America unless I'm mistaken is based on money in circulation.
    No, you're mistaken alright. Even in countries run by harsh communist dictators, GDP is based on the output of real goods and services. That's why it's called Gross Domestic PRODUCT, not Gross Domestic MONEY.

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    Asking for money from GDP growth in America in America's current financial condition would be like going to a loan shark for 15 trillion and then going to another loan shark to pay off the 15 trillion. Instead of one loan shark with interest you will have two loan sharks with interest you have to pay back.
    In the real world, the people you want to call loan sharks are crawling across the floor and begging Please, please, please, take my money. You can pay me almost no interest at all. That would be wonderful in fact, just please take my money.

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    However it is 2013 check the debt, check the IOU'S, check the unemployment. The current economic system is not working it didn't work under the Republicans, and after 4 years the Democrats should know by now it is not working for them either.
    Gotta love it. So what does the new and better system look like again? People who don't know and can't explain how the current model is put together want to burn it to the ground in a belief that they'll figure out a way to raise up a new and better phoenix from the ashes. It's all a bunch of pie-in-the-sky hooey.

  2. #592
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Never mind that the supposed article is three years old and has the vanished Cheesehead Paul Ryan as its point man. National health care systems do a better job for less money. The losing proposition is the one boneheads have been trying to run here. PPACA starts the process of USA CHANGE. Please stand back of the white line along the platform.
    Less money for whom? My costs are higher than they have ever been just in premiums. Me thinks you are on the government teet.

  3. #593
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    Less money for whom? My costs are higher than they have ever been just in premiums. Me thinks you are on the government teet.
    You're making a good argument for a steep progressive income tax to offset the differential benefits and burdens of competitive advantage.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    Surrender, get real, a maker-me, will never surrender to a taker- you
    Man, it's like a Grover Norquist zombie post.

  5. #595
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    Re: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    17 nations hardly make an accurate portrait - the idea behind looking at such skimmed statistics is to compare, contrast - and then learn what can be done differently. . . statistics serve purpose..
    Accurate as to what? Those are the 17 advanced economies. It kind of makes sense to compare our system to theirs and not, say, Somalias.

  6. #596
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    Re: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    More importantly: Does it all rest on economics? What other countries might be better off - yet not on par economically . . . why? Also - cultural and social norms that we share, political views, the approach to providing healthcare and cost-control, geography and how it affects accessibility (to hospitals - of medicines) and so on . . . etc. You need variety to really see where a country lies.

    And since healthcare can vary widely in the US between professions I'd also contrast that - professions, states, types of insurance, etc.

    If I was really hammering down on this to really get a sense of where we were - compared to where others were (huge variety - top to bottom) - and then defining where we want to be and how we *might* be able to get there (different paths).
    Inadvertently, you're making my point not yours. PUBLIC health sucks in the US since it's rationed by income. Other advanced countries don't do that.

    If you want to compare countries that ration health care by income, say Somalia, with us, be my guess. You'd be making my point.

  7. #597
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Similar things like Obama continuing the Bush policies in Iraq and Afganistan...
    Bush abandoned Afghanistan. Which is why Obama had to go back. Bush then got us quagmired in Iraq for no reason at all. Obama got us out of that. Couldn't necessarily save the dishes and silverware, but indeed we are out after proving only that some people learned nothing from Vietnam. Oh, and that bin Laden guy is dead too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    ...like Obama continuing the Bush policy of deficit spending...
    LOL! Policy doesnt enter into it. Since 1969, we've had a budget deficit every year but four. All under Clinton. But thanks to Bush, you will not live to see that happen again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    ...of Obama doubling down on Bush's idea of providing more government sponsored health care...
    Got history? Attempts to get a national health insurance program in place in this country go back nearly a century to the AALL/AMA effort just before WWI. It was overtaken by events. The Depression and WWII overshadowed further efforts such as those by the CCMC and FDR's National Health Act of 1939. Truman pushed hard for a national single-payer plan after the war, but in the era of the Red Scare, idiot reactionaries were able to associate it with Communism and it too died. In the 1950's, progressives changed tactics and in the end were able to pass Medicare and Medicaid. Nixon and Ted Kennedy were very close to agreement on a national health care program, but it was overtaken by Watergate. Clinton's efforts in the early 1990's followed some earlier ones in falling victim to tactical errors. Finally, Obama came around to the back door and had Congress write the plan and HCR was passed at last. Bush? Not a player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    ...of Obama continuing and expanding the Department of Education...
    DOEd has been there since Carter. No one intends to knock it down. Big words are all hot air.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    ...and its No Child Left Behind test centered curriculum...
    Again, the history. NCLB originated under LBJ. Bush just changed the name in 2001 because at that time, he wanted to be "The Education President" when he grew up. Curricula are of course defined at the state and local level and so is testing. Testing was obviously not new either, but high-stakes "teaching to the test" was, and nobody much liked that or the unfunded mandate part of things or the draining of funds out of schools that needed them most. As the result, NCLB was essentially gutted by Obama in 2011. His new bill was passed in the Senate, but faced yet another partisan blockade over in the House. So Obama used an Executive Order to provide waivers to more than half the states (the ones with a lot of at-risk kids and schools), removing them from coverage under the act. NCLB is effectively dead. You think killing it is the same as supporting it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    ...yes, similar things like that lead me to believe that they're pretty much alike.
    You didn't do your homework. But you can copy off mine if you like and impress friends and family with how much you learned in school today.
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 02-05-13 at 08:26 PM.

  8. #598
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    Less money for whom?
    Less money per capita for better overall health care. Countries all over the world are doing it. This should hardly come as a shock. It's been in all the papers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    My costs are higher than they have ever been just in premiums.
    Sounds like you might be one of the last victims of the old system. It'll be something you can tell your grandkids about. But in the first year under PPACA controls, premiums rose by less than half as much as they did in the last year before PPACA kicked in. That's the bigger picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    Me thinks you are on the government teet.
    We all are, dude. As if it mattered.

  9. #599
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    You're making a good argument for a steep progressive income tax to offset the differential benefits and burdens of competitive advantage.
    I am making a good argument for lazy ****s to go back to work.

  10. #600
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Less money per capita for better overall health care. Countries all over the world are doing it. This should hardly come as a shock. It's been in all the papers.


    Sounds like you might be one of the last victims of the old system. It'll be something you can tell your grandkids about. But in the first year under PPACA controls, premiums rose by less than half as much as they did in the last year before PPACA kicked in. That's the bigger picture.
    Please get your programming somewhere besides huffington or the new york times, my premiums rose more after 26 year old adults could stay on their parent insurance than it had in the previous 10 years combined.

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