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Thread: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

  1. #511
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    More than 140 million 1040's are filed and that of course reflects only federal income tax, the source of about one-third of federal revenues and no state or local revenues at all.


    No, it is so far off as to be worthless for any sort of work.


    In the same sense that each of us has an annual income of $160,000. Except of course that we will never repay the debt -- just service it -- so no matter what it is, knowing what one's share of the debt is would be completely pointless, as the number would be absolutely without any sort of implication whatsoever.


    National governments are not households and public debt is not at all analogous to credit card debt. Your education in these areas would appear to be woefully incomplete.


    The average interest rate on the public debt has been running a little lower than your estimate, checking in at 2.52% per annum as of December 31. Interest payments on the US public debt in FY 2012 were $359 billion. US offsetting receipts of interest on its holdings of the debt of others were $127 billion.
    140 million 1040 forms filed does not equal 140 million taxpayers. Some of those form fillers paid no income tax.

    And yes, I'm aware that the 160 grand will never be paid back. We'll be paying interest and paying in the form of inflation for as long as the US exists.

    The credit card debt is another matter. Perhaps I wasn't clear, but the original statement I quoted was about the size of a trillion dollars, and about how people were paying for the nice cars and the shopping trips. The credit card debt is individual debt, not public. That one doesn't bother me so much as I personally don't share in it.

    But the 18% figure is pretty low. Credit card companies have ways of jacking up t he interest rate even higher than that. Read the fine print on the throwaway that comes with a credit card sometime, and see just what you pay if you don't pay the cards off at the end of the month.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    I suspect you didn't see the humor in my post and latched on to that instead of the point. That being spend less on death and more on life.
    Right, the humor has actually escaped me still even upon multiple rereadngs.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    (1997 Slick Willy signed into law a real life, honest to goodness budget. So, never say never.)
    No, he didn't. The budget request for FY 1998 (submitted in February 1997) resulted in the following separate acts...

    P.L. 105-45, -55, -56, -61, -62, -65, -66, -78, -83, -86, -100, -118, and -119.

    That includes the DC appropriations act (P.L. 105-100) that some people like to count and some people don't.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayno View Post
    LOL....Anything to put forward your propaganda and deny reality.......
    The inescapable reality is that the US has perhaps the worst overall health care system in the developed world, but without any question at all, it has by far the most expensive.

    Meanhwile, Stossel is a shameless hack and his now five-year old nonsense screeds seeking to debunk the 2000 WHO study on which exactly none of the facts above are actually based is a fruitless and silly effort that people like Stosssel are driven to because they cannot address the facts directly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayno View Post
    I believe your source is from a group of notorious liars.
    ALL of them? And what basis do you have for passing such a judgment? You once read a John Stossel article at townhall.com? Is that the extent of your effort and qualification in the matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayno View Post
    The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. Winston Churchill
    Oh yeah, Churchill. Isn't he the guy who said that the best argument against democracy was a five-minute conversation with the average voter? You're doing great at proving him right on that one.

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    Re: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Right, the humor has actually escaped me still even upon multiple rereadngs.
    Well, it was no fart joke, I know but I didn't know I had a hostile crowd to contend with...


    No, he didn't. The budget request for FY 1998 (submitted in February 1997) resulted in the following separate acts...

    P.L. 105-45, -55, -56, -61, -62, -65, -66, -78, -83, -86, -100, -118, and -119.

    That includes the DC appropriations act (P.L. 105-100) that some people like to count and some people don't.
    You mean that whole 2 bills, 40 pens, applause applause, "Newt's the best" "Oh no you are Bill" love fest didn't happen?

    agreed on May 15,1997?

    No?

    signed on Aug 5, 1997?

    No?

    God's beneath us!?!?!?

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    The inescapable reality is that the US has perhaps the worst overall health care system in the developed world, but without any question at all, it has by far the most expensive.

    Meanhwile, Stossel is a shameless hack and his now five-year old nonsense screeds seeking to debunk the 2000 WHO study on which exactly none of the facts above are actually based is a fruitless and silly effort that people like Stosssel are driven to because they cannot address the facts directly.


    ALL of them? And what basis do you have for passing such a judgment? You once read a John Stossel article at townhall.com? Is that the extent of your effort and qualification in the matter?


    Oh yeah, Churchill. Isn't he the guy who said that the best argument against democracy was a five-minute conversation with the average voter? You're doing great at proving him right on that one.
    That must explain why so many people needing life saving surgery fly to the United States, if they can..............

    And you need to read the article.

    Not only does Stossel "address the facts directly," he reveals the study as little more than a propaganda tool.

    And there are MANY sources besides Stossel who debunk the nonsense that our Health Care system is somehow sub-par....

    BTW, latest CBO estimate for ObamaCare is 2.8 TRILLION, and rising.....

    After he told us it would only cost 800 Billion....

    Good luck paying the bill!

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Yet another example of Fear of Big Numbers. One trillion dollars doesn't mean anything at all except in comparison to something else. The typical something else is GDP, and that comparison shows that while high by normal standards, debt is not out of line with levels reached during other national emergencies. Interest payments on the debt in FY 2012 were meanwhile lower than they were in FY 1998. Much ado about nothing. Or at least, very little.
    It may not be "much ado about nothing" now, but what of the next generation and if the debt keeps rising what of the next and the next.
    Are we to keep passing the buck to the next generation, or are we to start taking responsibility for the debts the generation as accumilated.
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    140 million 1040 forms filed does not equal 140 million taxpayers. Some of those form fillers paid no income tax.
    And many were filing joint returns. Your point? People pay no NET tax because they owe no NET tax. You understand the concept of NET, right? I know a lot of people don't really understand it, including some who host TV shows on FOX News. But consider some working-poor family sort of guy who's getting juiced every day by payroll, excise, and state and local taxes who also owes $300 in federal income tax, but has $2200 coming in EITC and/or ACCC credits as well. He'll receive a net of $1900 out of the deal but will be counted as among those who paid no net tax.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    And yes, I'm aware that the 160 grand will never be paid back.
    Why would you mention it then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    We'll be paying interest and paying in the form of inflation for as long as the US exists.
    Yes, and all the other successful economies in the world who are carrying public debt -- which is all of them -- will be paying interest forever as well. It's sort of like how everyone not living in a cardboard box under a bridge is paying rent of some sort. Just like all the people in Zimbabwe and the Weimar Republic did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The credit card debt is another matter. Perhaps I wasn't clear, but the original statement I quoted was about the size of a trillion dollars, and about how people were paying for the nice cars and the shopping trips. The credit card debt is individual debt, not public. That one doesn't bother me so much as I personally don't share in it.
    OK, so credit cards (and consumer debt in general) are actually a consumer matter in both practice and theory. No public sector implication. That's progress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    But the 18% figure is pretty low. Credit card companies have ways of jacking up t he interest rate even higher than that. Read the fine print on the throwaway that comes with a credit card sometime, and see just what you pay if you don't pay the cards off at the end of the month.
    Actually, Obama did away with a lot of that fine-print garbage back in 2009. Still senseless to charge more than you know you can pay off, but when you can get free gas and free cash, NOT charging things can also become a waste of money.

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    Re: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    You mean that whole 2 bills, 40 pens, applause applause, "Newt's the best" "Oh no you are Bill" love fest didn't happen? agreed on May 15,1997? No? signed on Aug 5, 1997? No? God's beneath us!?!?!?
    Oh, all that existed alright, it simply wasn't a budget in any sense of the word. The tax and spending agreements of 1997 were no more a budget than the recent and fiscal-cliff avoiding ATRA was. The actual FY 2013 budget is of course and for the moment at least still cruising along on the same old CR that expires on March 27.

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    Re: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Oh, all that existed alright, it simply wasn't a budget in any sense of the word. The tax and spending agreements of 1997 were no more a budget than the recent and fiscal-cliff avoiding ATRA was. The actual FY 2013 budget is of course and for the moment at least still cruising along on the same old CR that expires on March 27.
    Well at any rate they can trim the money going toward defense and put it towards something useful, is the point I was making.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayno View Post
    That must explain why so many people needing life saving surgery fly to the United States, if they can..............
    You can get the surgery anywhere. The super-wealthy however do enjoy recuperating in the luxury of our high-roller, upscale resort-style hospitals. Meanwhile, why don't you google "medical tourism".

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayno View Post
    And you need to read the article. Not only does Stossel "address the facts directly," he reveals the study as little more than a propaganda tool.
    Let me guess. It's a sign of extreme bias and a warped socialist mentality to count the share of a population that actually has access to the health care system as a category at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayno View Post
    And there are MANY sources besides Stossel who debunk the nonsense that our Health Care system is somehow sub-par....
    No, there aren't. Only a limited number of clowns holds that point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayno View Post
    BTW, latest CBO estimate for ObamaCare is 2.8 TRILLION, and rising.....After he told us it would only cost 800 Billion....Good luck paying the bill!
    LOL!

    CBO and JCT now estimate that the insurance coverage provisions of the ACA will have a net cost of $1,168 billion over the 2012–2022 period—compared with $1,252 billion projected in March 2012 for that 11-year period—for a net reduction of $84 billion. (Those figures do not include the budgetary impact of other provisions of the ACA, which in the aggregate reduce budget deficits.)

    The projected net savings to the federal government resulting from the Supreme Court’s decision arise because the reductions in spending from lower Medicaid enrollment are expected to more than offset the increase in costs from greater participation in the newly established exchanges.


    -- CBO. July 24, 2012

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