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Thread: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

  1. #41
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    FDR accepted employer based health care be cause job assurance came with it.
    No he didn't. It was an unforseen consequence of his wage controls.

    We had plenty of times since when Nationaliztion of Healthcare was proposed but the Right would have none of it.
    Nor the Center Left. If there was a consensus in the Democrat Party for single-payer, then that is what we would have gotten in 2010.

    Do you believe we need nationaized healthcare like the rest of the Western world? Or do you stick with FDR on this one?
    As I recall, FDR wanted nationalized healthcare as well - he just couldn't get it. I think that the state is an atrocious provider of consumer goods and services, and so turning over something as intensely personal and complicated as our healthcare to its' tender mercies would have about as much efficacy as raising every child in a state-run orphanage.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    LOL, quite right: America's problem with obesity is the addition of individual problems with obesity.

    At the end any nationwide solution needs the agreement of all these individuals to do the same kind of things.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    No he didn't. It was an unforseen consequence of his wage controls.



    Nor the Center Left. If there was a consensus in the Democrat Party for single-payer, then that is what we would have gotten in 2010.



    As I recall, FDR wanted nationalized healthcare as well - he just couldn't get it. I think that the state is an atrocious provider of consumer goods and services, and so turning over something as intensely personal and complicated as our healthcare to its' tender mercies would have about as much efficacy as raising every child in a state-run orphanage.
    I guess it is because the State is such "an atrocious provider" that our military is so weak and incapable. You just can't have it both ways you know. The U.S. military is the largest and most expensive socialist "project" in the world today.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post

    This is incorrect - we count all of our children who die, other nations do not. For example, we count premie babies (who are at significantly higher risk).

    And, again, this depends on how you count. We count all of our losses, other nations do not.
    This is actually a canard that has propagated throughout your healthcare debate.

    Just looking at the European countries that have the exact same method of calculating infant mortality who have better rates include - the UK, Austria, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Slovak Republic, Spain, Sweden.

    For those that are higher on the list that fall out of that definition, the NCHS estimates that those countries would have to misreport a third of their dataset to explain the disparity.

    http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41378.pdf

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    I guess it is because the State is such "an atrocious provider" that our military is so weak and incapable. You just can't have it both ways you know. The U.S. military is the largest and most expensive socialist "project" in the world today.
    This is incorrect in two ways:

    Firstly, defense is not a consumer good or service, as it is not consumed when it is received. It is a public good because it is not. While governments are usually better at breaking things than they are at making or disbursing them, defense does not represent a socialist project for the simple enough reason that it does not represent government ownership or control of the means of production.

    Secondly, defense, like most the rest of our government, is also fairly famously inefficient, dollar-for-dollar.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
    LOL, quite right: America's problem with obesity is the addition of individual problems with obesity.

    At the end any nationwide solution needs the agreement of all these individuals to do the same kind of things.
    And why excatly is a solution needed?
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    And why excatly is a solution needed?
    You think obesity is OK?

    Don't know. I am not obsese. Are you? But for sure it causes a great deal of health problems and uncomfort.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
    You think obesity is OK?

    Don't know. I am not obsese. Are you? But for sure it causes a great deal of health problems and uncomfort.
    If you or some one else is obese its none of my concern. I dont see were it would be the concern of government or society at large. Or for that matter why anybody would care except maybe the person who is obese or their familiy. I have been obese I have been athletically built at differnt points in my life.
    Semper Fidelis, Semper Liber.
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    If you or some one else is obese its none of my concern. I dont see were it would be the concern of government or society at large. Or for that matter why anybody would care except maybe the person who is obese or their familiy. I have been obese I have been athletically built at differnt points in my life.
    Unless society at large is impacted economically by others' obesity, then it is of no concern to society at large.

    It seems to me that there is a major impact, however.
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    If you or some one else is obese its none of my concern. I dont see were it would be the concern of government or society at large. Or for that matter why anybody would care except maybe the person who is obese or their familiy. I have been obese I have been athletically built at differnt points in my life.
    How about you look it up?
    Evidence on the considerable costs of obesity to individuals and society is rich. At the individual level, obesity is associated with health care costs that average about 30 percent above those for normal weight individuals. Overall, obesity-related direct and indirect economic costs exceed $100 billion annually, and the number is expected to grow. In relative terms, obesity accounts for 6 percent to 10 percent of U.S. health care spending, compared with 2 percent to 3.5 percent in other Western countries. The burden of obesity-related medical costs falls disproportionately on public health care in the U.S., draining resources from public programs like Medicare and Medicaid. Obesity accounted for 27 percent of the growth in real U.S. health care spending between 1987 and 2001. Despite these sobering statistics, the full effects of obesity trends since the 1980s are not yet fully apparent because health problems caused by weight gain take time to appear.
    Obesity and the Workplace

    Given the significant financial burden imposed by obesity, employers have a stake in reducing obesity in the workforce. Obese workers miss more days of work and cost employers more in medical and disability claims as well as workers compensation claims. As a result, an average firm with 1,000 employees faces $285,000 per year in extra costs associated with obesity. In addition to the costs of obesity to businesses, obese employees are subject to significant discrimination in the workplace due to weight stigma.

    (Yale Rudd Center)

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