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Thread: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
    And if you don't realize that this is precisely why healthcare is there: to cure diabetes and high choloestoral and all the collateral damages of obesity and poor diet, then you are just being simple minded.
    But, diabetes, high cholesterol, and the collateral damages of obesity and poor diet can't be cured without some effort on the part of the patient.

    So, we must continue to use the "Americans are too fat, and that's the cause of the health care crisis" argument to ignore the fact that the current health care system is bankrupting the country and therefore do nothing about it.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
    And if you don't realize that this is precisely why healthcare is there: to cure diabetes and high choloestoral and all the collateral damages of obesity and poor diet, then you are just being simple minded.
    Nice attempt to redirect. However, in context, your interpretation, has absolutely nothing to do with what was actually written, since I was addressing some of the factors causing the difference in statistics, not why healthcare exists.

    Do you actually have any arguments about what was written?
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    But, diabetes, high cholesterol, and the collateral damages of obesity and poor diet can't be cured without some effort on the part of the patient.

    So, we must continue to use the "Americans are too fat, and that's the cause of the health care crisis" argument to ignore the fact that the current health care system is bankrupting the country and therefore do nothing about it.
    Yes, I agree with what you are saying ... But the responsibility of the patient can easily be worked into a insurance policy. With a system of bonus and malus for examples. In Germany there are many incentives for patients to do a couple of things, like go to the doctor regularly, otherwise they need to pay more money ...
    "Never argue with stupid people, they will drive you down to their level and then beat you with experience" (Marc Twain)

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Nice attempt to redirect. However, in context, your interpretation, has absolutely nothing to do with what was actually written, since I was addressing some of the factors causing the difference in statistics, not why healthcare exists.

    Do you actually have any arguments about what was written?
    I am not redirecting. And if I am it's because I am bringing in an argument.

    Do you actually have any argument about what I am stating?
    "Never argue with stupid people, they will drive you down to their level and then beat you with experience" (Marc Twain)

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
    I am not redirecting. And if I am it's because I am bringing in an argument.

    Do you actually have any argument about what I am stating?
    Regardless of why healthcare exists, there is no reason to assume that someone who has not earned it, deserves it.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
    Yes, I agree with what you are saying ... But the responsibility of the patient can easily be worked into a insurance policy. With a system of bonus and malus for examples. In Germany there are many incentives for patients to do a couple of things, like go to the doctor regularly, otherwise they need to pay more money ...
    Yes, it could be and should be, but isn't.

    at least not in any insurance policy I'm familiar with.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yes, it could be and should be, but isn't.

    at least not in any insurance policy I'm familiar with.
    Well, what I think - but this is only an assumption based on the experience I made here in Germany - private insurances will only let healthy patients in ... There is no reason to have "bonus" and "malus" then. This is something for general health care systems ...
    "Never argue with stupid people, they will drive you down to their level and then beat you with experience" (Marc Twain)

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Regardless of why healthcare exists, there is no reason to assume that someone who has not earned it, deserves it.
    I don't know what "deserve" means in the context of health ...

    Do you deserve to get lung cancer when you are a non-smoker and have led a healthy life until the decease fell upon you? Do you deserve to get a car accident because there was a ghost driver on the highway? I am speaking of a real cases here.
    "Never argue with stupid people, they will drive you down to their level and then beat you with experience" (Marc Twain)

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
    Well, what I think - but this is only an assumption based on the experience I made here in Germany - private insurances will only let healthy patients in ... There is no reason to have "bonus" and "malus" then. This is something for general health care systems ...
    But Germany does have health care for unhealthy people as well, does it not?

    Here's what we need:
    A universal health insurance package that is really insurance, and not a pre paid health care plan.
    One that is paid for by taxes, run by a private company, and regulated by the government, a public/private hybrid, sort of like the power companies we have in California.
    One that requires the patient to pay based on a formula that includes income and health conditions that are the result of individual decisions.

    For example: Insurance kicks in after the patient has paid out 10% of his income for medical care. If the patient's BMI is lower than 25, however, then the percentage drops to 8%. If the patient is a non smoker, that drops it another percent or two.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    But Germany does have health care for unhealthy people as well, does it not?

    Here's what we need:
    A universal health insurance package that is really insurance, and not a pre paid health care plan.
    One that is paid for by taxes, run by a private company, and regulated by the government, a public/private hybrid, sort of like the power companies we have in California.
    One that requires the patient to pay based on a formula that includes income and health conditions that are the result of individual decisions.

    For example: Insurance kicks in after the patient has paid out 10% of his income for medical care. If the patient's BMI is lower than 25, however, then the percentage drops to 8%. If the patient is a non smoker, that drops it another percent or two.
    Yes, Germany takes everybody in ... In fact, since there are different "Kassen", it has created financial problems to one of them, the AOK which was, so to say, the one for the "left-overs" or the "uniformed". The people insured there were also paying the highest fee (since their risk was higher). They harmonized all fees a couple of years ago and this solved the problem.

    I actually agree that a sound system should encourage the patient and the fee should be lower if a number of criteria are met. (But await resistance from the fats and the smokers who will cry against discrimination!). Regarding income, what do you do with those with 1) no income 2) those with very high income

    In Germany, for example 1) is being handled by the university or the job center or the corresponding social institution 2) is being met by allowing people from a certain yearly income to opt out of the general system and buy a private insurance.

    My last question is: how does Obamacare fits into this?
    "Never argue with stupid people, they will drive you down to their level and then beat you with experience" (Marc Twain)

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