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Thread: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

  1. #31
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    One thing we all (or at least most) can agree on: The United States has some severe problems to solve. We have the most expensive health care in the world, yet no better outcomes than anyone else. We have more drug abuse than anyone. We have a higher infant mortality that other industrialized nations. We have more teen pregnancy than anyone. We have more prisoners than anyone else. We have a huge and growing debt. We have more obese people than anyone.

    So, instead of leaping and hooting about being the greatest nation on Earth, instead of trying to solve everyone else's problems, instead of protecting the rest of the world with our military, why don't we try to solve some of the problems here at home? Let's quit making excuses and inventing bumper stickers, and start finding solutions, practical solutions that work in the real world.

    What do you say?

    I like this idea.

  2. #32
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    One thing we all (or at least most) can agree on: The United States has some severe problems to solve. We have the most expensive health care in the world, yet no better outcomes than anyone else. We have more drug abuse than anyone. We have a higher infant mortality that other industrialized nations. We have more teen pregnancy than anyone. We have more prisoners than anyone else. We have a huge and growing debt. We have more obese people than anyone.

    So, instead of leaping and hooting about being the greatest nation on Earth, instead of trying to solve everyone else's problems, instead of protecting the rest of the world with our military, why don't we try to solve some of the problems here at home? Let's quit making excuses and inventing bumper stickers, and start finding solutions, practical solutions that work in the real world.

    What do you say?

    I say that would be the sane course for us to take!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #33
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    step one is completely delinking health care from specific employment. i was exceptionally disappointed that the PPACA didn't do that.
    Remember, this was basically a Republican plan chosen as the best they could hope to pass and it was still a close one.
    It is also a fact that most people are happy with their employee coverage so this was meant to not force people change their plans. In other words it's better than nothing, at least there are checks on the profits of the insurers and don't forget ending pre-existing conditions.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 01-13-13 at 01:17 AM.

  4. #34
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I say that would be the sane course for us to take!
    All right then!

    Does that mean it would be a new first for the government of the USA?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  5. #35
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Well, let's see:

    The highest rate of death by violence, by a stunning margin
    The highest rate of death by car accident, also dramatically so
    Neither of these have anything to do with our healthcare system.

    The highest chance that a child will die before age 5
    This is incorrect - we count all of our children who die, other nations do not. For example, we count premie babies (who are at significantly higher risk).

    The second-highest rate of death by coronary heart disease
    Gotta love McDonalds and Bar-b-Que. However, again, this doesn't really demonstrate a problem with our healthcare system as much as it does with our eating habits.

    The second-highest rate of death by lung disease
    This is also a rather massaged statistic. When you look at the actual incidence of, Americans survive cancer at a higher rate than other industrialized nations, due to the increased access and higher quality of care that our system offers. That is why the article in the OP also says:

    "Americans are more likely to survive cancer or stroke, and if we live to age 75 we're likely to keep on living longer than others."

    The highest teen pregnancy rate
    Not terribly unsurprising, however, color me intensely suspicious.

    The highest rate of women dying due to complications of pregnancy and childbirth
    And, again, this depends on how you count. We count all of our losses, other nations do not.

  6. #36
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Remember, this was basically a Republican plan chosen as the best they could hope to pass and it was still a close one.
    It is also a fact that most people are happy with their employee coverage so this was meant to not force people change their plans. In other words it's better than nothing, at least there are checks on the profits of the insurers and don't forget ending pre-existing conditions.

    yes, most people are happy with their employer provided coverage, if they have it, that is. The problem is, putting the burden of health care on employers is a bigger job killer than any "soak the rich" tax scheme could ever be. Moreover, if you lose your job, you lose your health care, which is a big disincentive for people to strike out on their own by starting a small business. The result of having the most expensive health care in the world is making the recession worse.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  7. #37
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    All right then!

    Does that mean it would be a new first for the government of the USA?

    First it would have to be a new first for our society, as the change will have to come from us. Our government is us! It only does what we allow it to do!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #38
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    yes, most people are happy with their employer provided coverage, if they have it, that is. The problem is, putting the burden of health care on employers is a bigger job killer than any "soak the rich" tax scheme could ever be. Moreover, if you lose your job, you lose your health care, which is a big disincentive for people to strike out on their own by starting a small business. The result of having the most expensive health care in the world is making the recession worse.
    Agreed. The employer provided health insurance model is one of the worst things bequeathed to us by FDR. And that is quite a list to get on.

  9. #39
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    yes, most people are happy with their employer provided coverage, if they have it, that is. The problem is, putting the burden of health care on employers is a bigger job killer than any "soak the rich" tax scheme could ever be. Moreover, if you lose your job, you lose your health care, which is a big disincentive for people to strike out on their own by starting a small business. The result of having the most expensive health care in the world is making the recession worse.
    They should have thought of that years ago when the employer based system was set up complete with tax breaks for companies that provided it. The Govt. should have taken over then instead but it was "Communism" and the sky would fall so this is what we got stuck with.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Agreed. The employer provided health insurance model is one of the worst things bequeathed to us by FDR. And that is quite a list to get on.
    FDR accepted employer based health care be cause job assurance came with it. Unions provided job security that is gone now.
    We had plenty of times since when Nationaliztion of Healthcare was proposed but the Right would have none of it.
    It turned out they liked the status quo FDR or not.
    Do you believe we need nationaized healthcare like the rest of the Western world? Or do you stick with FDR on this one?
    Last edited by iguanaman; 01-13-13 at 02:10 AM.

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