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Thread: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

  1. #351
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
    My assertion is that you have cliché and meaningless views about Europeans.

    I further explained to you that the issue of health care is not about responsibility. It is about getting the best possible deal: the highest value of health care at the cheapest price.
    What does either of those points have to do with ANYTHING I've posted, much less the post you quoted??? And no, those aren't the only elements of the equation. After all, by stepping across the border into Canada and committing a felony crime, I could get the best possible deal on my healthcare. And at the cheapest price - free. Of course I'd be in a Canadian prison, but hey, I'd get the best healthcare and at the best price. All I have to sacrifice is my freedom.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
    Come on ... All you need to do is not to enlist anywhere... As for these busybodies, I wish they had visited these old people regularly found dead in their appartments ...

    Where I agree is that as soon as you get into a social activity - be it a job or a club or this forum - you need to play by the rules.
    Huh? Are you reading for comprehension? Wasn't talking about "enlisting anywhere". There are people who try to live in caves and in our national forests. They eventually get caught and barred from the location. There are already people who try to get away from the maddening herd, every time the herd comes and gets them.

  2. #352
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No, I didn't



    OK, now I understand that your %'s were a % of GDP. Now can you tell me where you got "Medicare/Medicaid/Veterans together" acct for 9% of GDP. Id true, that means that more than 42% of the Fed budget is spent on those three pgms

    According to this chart, Fed spending on health care doesn't come close to 42% of the Fed budget


    Federal Spending by the Numbers - 2012
    Hard to get exact figures from that chart, but it looks about right.

    It looks like my figures were a little off. That's easy to do when the numbers keep fluctuating, but anyway, let's re do the math with more up to date data:

    First:

    Combined outlays for Medicare and Medicaid currently equal about 5.5 percent of GDP. "Under current law, spending for those two programs is expected to keep growing faster than the economy, reaching 6.6 percent of GDP by 2020 and potentially reaching 10 percent by 2035," says the CBO.

    Read more: Medicare/Medicaid spending a national 'threat,' says CBO - FierceHealthcare Medicare/Medicaid spending a national 'threat,' says CBO - FierceHealthcare
    So, it's a little more than 5.5% now, as the data given is from 2010.

    Amount wast.. I mean spent by the federal government: 22.77%

    Total amount of medical care spending (as of a couple of years ago) 17.4 percent.

    So, take the 22.77%, subtract out the 5.5% that is Medicare/Medicaid, and you get 17.27%.

    Compare that with medical care expenditures, of 17.4%, and you can see that the federal government is still spending less on everything from Social Security to the war in Afganistan than the country spends (private and public spending) on health care.

    Just not quite as much more as I thought.

    I didn't find figures for Veteran's health care. That would no doubt add another percent or two to the government's cost of medical care.

    those figures are a couple of years old. The cost of medical care keeps going up and up.

    So, is cost containment an issue, or not?
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  3. #353
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Compare that with medical care expenditures, of 17.4%, and you can see that the federal government is still spending less on everything from Social Security to the war in Afganistan than the country spends (private and public spending) on health care.
    OK, now I'm following you, but I dont see the relevance of comparing the "% of GDP that comes from Fed spending" vs "health care spending as a % of GDP".


    Just not quite as much more as I thought.

    I didn't find figures for Veteran's health care. That would no doubt add another percent or two to the government's cost of medical care.

    those figures are a couple of years old. The cost of medical care keeps going up and up.

    So, is cost containment an issue, or not?
    Yes, cost containment is an issue. Everyone agrees on this. Just citing the % of GDP spent on health care is sufficient to demonstrate that (hence my confusion over your mention it in comparison to fed spending as % GDP)

    Was that your point?
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #354
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    OK, now I'm following you, but I dont see the relevance of comparing the "% of GDP that comes from Fed spending" vs "health care spending as a % of GDP".




    Yes, cost containment is an issue. Everyone agrees on this. Just citing the % of GDP spent on health care is sufficient to demonstrate that (hence my confusion over your mention it in comparison to fed spending as % GDP)

    Was that your point?
    I was responding to Winston's post:

    I really don't think cost cutting measures are the biggest concerns. I think questions of morbidity are a bigger concern as far as health issues are concerned in regards to the issues you are talking about
    Cost cutting measures are the biggest concerns. We can't afford the health care system we have. It is bankrupting us faster than even the growth of the federal government.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I was responding to Winston's post:



    Cost cutting measures are the biggest concerns. We can't afford the health care system we have. It is bankrupting us faster than even the growth of the federal government.
    While I tend to agree with you, and not Winston (on this issue), I dont think the stats you posted prove your point, and I do think that winston does have a point because reducing morbidity *is* a cost-cutting effort

    Saying that the way to cut costs is to cut spending on health care is a short-sighted view (not saying that this is your view. Just sayin')
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #356
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by presluc View Post
    Ah, my friend it is always good to hear from you.
    Keyword here I think is profits, after all America is a Capitalist country which runs on money , profits.

    However my question is as I have said on another thread without income to the government money gets lower profits will shrink because a majority of profits depend on Tax Revenue.

    The government must get Tax revenue from working people making a high enough wage to pay taxes.
    The American government can not keep borrowing money and printing money, in the long run this will not furnish profits but bankruptcy.


    I'm not sure I understand your meaning clearly my friend, would you mind rephrasing it for me?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Cost cutting measures are the biggest concerns. We can't afford the health care system we have. It is bankrupting us faster than even the growth of the federal government.
    I was talking in regards to actual health care not all the red tape we have to go through and profiteers on the business side. I think every one with an acceptable rate of morbidity should have healthcare be it a transplant or just a shot. I do not think executives at health insurance companies deserve exorbitant paychecks for increasing stock price.

  8. #358
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    What does either of those points have to do with ANYTHING I've posted, much less the post you quoted??? And no, those aren't the only elements of the equation. After all, by stepping across the border into Canada and committing a felony crime, I could get the best possible deal on my healthcare. And at the cheapest price - free. Of course I'd be in a Canadian prison, but hey, I'd get the best healthcare and at the best price. All I have to sacrifice is my freedom.
    .
    I don't think going to prison just to get health care is getting a good deal

    Thank you for providing a good example why it necessary to fix health care at home in order not to get into such a situation ...
    "Never argue with stupid people, they will drive you down to their level and then beat you with experience" (Marc Twain)

  9. #359
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    I was talking in regards to actual health care not all the red tape we have to go through and profiteers on the business side. I think every one with an acceptable rate of morbidity should have healthcare be it a transplant or just a shot. I do not think executives at health insurance companies deserve exorbitant paychecks for increasing stock price.
    If more of our health care dollar went into actual health care, that would lower costs, no doubt.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyteRash View Post
    no even primitive cultures can count, but they couldnt possibly have the means or interest in doing an accurate job of it. so any information they'd bring would be questionable. instead i simply believe that many "modern" countries are just not forthcoming with any damaging data in order to be viewed better on the "world stage", or perhaps some just don't tally these things and use estimates based on samplings to the good.. IMO, there just seems to be alot of finger pointing at the USofA, using snippits of data that are very likely not "apples to apples".
    Unbelievably naive -- a demonstration of how off-course the unwary can be blown in an over-reliance on mindless nationalism. Nations do not invest in the collection and publication of detailed data sets for the purpose of improving appearances on some world stage or other. They do so in order that policy-makers, scholars, and analysts can have access to the best possible data as an anti-GIGO essential and input to processes of identifying and analyzing successes and failures and as guides to choices among available policy alternatives. The data collection systems in all developed countries are on a par with each other. There are international standards. There is a shared literature among them. All participate in international conferences and seminars on statistical methods, approaches, and problems. There seem to be rather a lot of people who are so entirely out of this loop as to not even know that it exists.

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