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Thread: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

  1. #321
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
    1) So you agree your opinion has no value compared to international statistics. Good.

    2) At the moment, you'll get 1,331 dollar for 1 Euro - A 30% difference to the advantage of the Euro. Makes travelling in the US for us Europeans quite affordable.

    3) Except that, of course, the stats formulas make up for this margin of error - in different ways, so that the results will be slightly different ... I thought such an enlightened guy as you would have known that In any case, the high difference in ranking the USA have to make up for cannot be explained by difference of sample size. Nor by some alleged inferior methods of recording of industralized countries with similar standards of living ... This is a very very very poor argument, especially by a poster who recognises that his opinion has no value compared to international statistics i.e that he does not know what he is talking about

    4) Ah, ah ... Because people with no health coverage get access to all the services when they, let say, have been diagnotized with lung cancer? Interresting. I wonder why anybody is paying health insurance then.

    5) I feel sorry for you. You should stay at home and not travel, this is obviously a waste of your money: it does not look like travelling has opened your mind.
    1) No, I simply stated that you can take my opinion or leave it. Simple as that.
    2) LOL! Totally erroneous claim. The exchange rate for Euro vs the Dollar is 1 Euro for $1.25. However, unlike you guys, we don't have a Greece hanging around with a few countries after it ready to collapse. If the EU was so strong, it's entire future wouldn't hinge on what happens over here.
    3) Really? So all of those different governments that had their stats gathered by so many different people/organizations and so many different methods all decided on a standard formula to gather stats for the World Health Organization? No one even knows what the WHO is, what it does, or anything else like that. They just produced some results that were shocking to some and a newspaper grabbed onto to it for a headline.
    4) I will direct you to the debate with another user on this thread for the answer to this. There are many free health clinics across the US as well as the US gov't will pick up the tab in some cases.
    5) Agreed, it was a waste of my money. However, it did open my mind. It opened it to the fact that I definitely do not want to live in Europe.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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  2. #322
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
    I am sorry you had a bad experience when you were in Germany, but I am not surprised: Americans who are against socialist Obama care usually report a bad experience when they were in Europe , LOL .

    In fact, the German system is one of the most efficient systems in the world and attracts lost of foreign patients:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/wo...ents.html?_r=0

    It fares better than the US on all counts and remains cheaper despite an aging poulation ...
    http://www.commonwealthfund.org/~/me...l_brief_v2.pdf

    Yes, the obesity level is a problem in the USA but that is something where prevention is possible. And if the spending of drugs and of high tech is higher in the US than anywhere in the world, it's a shame if at the end there are still more ill people, a higher cancer death rates, higher infant mortality rates and shorter life expectancy ... Well, I am sure you know the statistics
    A large part of our costs is not due to they type of system but due to the fact that we are by far the most self-destructive society on the planet.

    Medical tourism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "A McKinsey and Co. report from 2008 found that between 60,000 to 85,000 medical tourists were traveling to the United States for the purpose of receiving in-patient medical care...The availability of advanced medical technology and sophisticated training of physicians are cited as driving motivators for growth in foreigners traveling to the U.S. for medical care".

    Germany is an attractive destination for patients from the Middle East since traveling to the USA has become more difficult for them since the September 11 attacks. US citizens sometimes travel to Germany to seek treatments such as artificial cervical disc replacement that are not US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approved.

    From your own link, check out the availability of MRI and CT Scanners, Two countries beat us on CT Scans. What is the availability of techniques such as Cyber Knife, robot surgeries and other new technologies? And check out the cancer survival rates section, we do very well in some categories and lead in some.

    The chronic disease section really tells the story of some of our outstanding costs. Damn are we a self-destructive people. If we actually took better care of ourselves, most of those problems you mention go away and combine that with not forcing care givers to accept uninsured patients, our cost would be very low.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  3. #323
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    From your own link, check out the availability of MRI and CT Scanners, Two countries beat us on CT Scans. What is the availability of techniques such as Cyber Knife, robot surgeries and other new technologies? And check out the cancer survival rates section, we do very well in some categories and lead in some.

    The chronic disease section really tells the story of some of our outstanding costs. Damn are we a self-destructive people. If we actually took better care of ourselves, most of those problems you mention go away and combine that with not forcing care givers to accept uninsured patients, our cost would be very low.
    I don' exactly know the availibility of all these robots and to be honest I don't really care. With or without these robots, fact remains that the care provided in this country where I presently live (Germany) is very good on all counts and that a baby born in Germany has, in statistical terms, a healthier and longer life in perspective than in the USA. Regarding "self destruction", if what you are referring to is obesity and smoking, as I said, prevention is possible. I don't know about the States but in Germany they set up such programmes.

    And regarding your comment about "taking care of yourself", that helps none of those who get cancer.

  4. #324
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Considering the difference in availability of technology, a 5% of GDP higher cost really doesn't sound that bad.
    Considering that it is government paid medical that is driving the deficit (mostly, anyway) and that it is private insurance that is putting a damper on employment, it sounds worse. We can't afford 32 grand on average for a family of four.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  5. #325
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    1) No, I simply stated that you can take my opinion or leave it. Simple as that.
    2) LOL! Totally erroneous claim. The exchange rate for Euro vs the Dollar is 1 Euro for $1.25. However, unlike you guys, we don't have a Greece hanging around with a few countries after it ready to collapse. If the EU was so strong, it's entire future wouldn't hinge on what happens over here.
    3) Really? So all of those different governments that had their stats gathered by so many different people/organizations and so many different methods all decided on a standard formula to gather stats for the World Health Organization? No one even knows what the WHO is, what it does, or anything else like that. They just produced some results that were shocking to some and a newspaper grabbed onto to it for a headline.
    4) I will direct you to the debate with another user on this thread for the answer to this. There are many free health clinics across the US as well as the US gov't will pick up the tab in some cases.
    5) Agreed, it was a waste of my money. However, it did open my mind. It opened it to the fact that I definitely do not want to live in Europe.
    1) Well, I'll leave it then.
    2)
    XE: (EUR/USD) Euro to US Dollar Rate
    (Mid-market rates: 2013-01-19 15:02 UTC)

    So yes, we have Greece in the Euro zone and it looks like we wil make it that Greece stays in the Euro zone. So far so good.
    3) I don't exactly understand your point but the fact that you do not know who the WHO is telling about the quality of your posting and why you prefer to stick to your own opinions based on what you would like to believe in order to feel superior ...
    4) What I think is that you should redirect those who get lung cancer to these free clinics so that they get proper treatment: maybe with your support will the US better its international ranking in treating lung cancer. You do not need to redirect me: I get access to high quality care at home and in just any clinic.
    5) Thank you for your understanding

  6. #326
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Considering that it is government paid medical that is driving the deficit (mostly, anyway) and that it is private insurance that is putting a damper on employment, it sounds worse. We can't afford 32 grand on average for a family of four.
    Then lets kick the uninsured off and make it cheaper. Re-introduce mandatory physical training in schools for every grade. My nephew is currently in school, and they have to take one PE class during high school, thats it, not one every year. I would also add make parents parent, but don't know how you would accomplish that.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  7. #327
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Then lets kick the uninsured off and make it cheaper. Re-introduce mandatory physical training in schools for every grade. My nephew is currently in school, and they have to take one PE class during high school, thats it, not one every year. I would also add make parents parent, but don't know how you would accomplish that.
    Kicking the uninsured off would make it cheaper, no doubt, but probably still not cheap enough. Doing so could have some serious consequences, too, it seems to me.

    Four years of PE would be a great idea. We used to have PE all four years when I was in high school. Back then, there were very few obese kids. I can remember one in our PE class of 40 or so. Of course, we got a lot of exercise chasing mammoths and such (yes, that was a little joke).

    Making parents parent. Now, there's an idea. If only we could do that, most of our social problems would evaporate.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

  8. #328
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    That's a great question. I'd like to know myself.
    I find it odd that politicians make a lot of speeches and statements , but seldom answer questions.
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  9. #329
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Hello old friend! I hope the winter has not been too chilly up North for you this winter!

    I think the most of it goes to profits by monopolies by health care providers.

    March/April 2012

    Gerald Friedman, Professor of economics, University of Massachusetts-Amherst

    “While providing superior health care,” the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act (HR 676), “would save as much as $570 billion now wasted on administrative overhead and monopoly profits. A single payer system would also make health-care financing dramatically more progressive by replacing fixed, income-invariant health-care expenditures with progressive taxes.”

    Friedman estimated that, in 2013, single payer would save $215 billion on administrative costs to providers, $23 billion on government administration, and $153 billion on private health insurance administration. It would also save $178 billion on drugs, medical equipment, and hospital care by reducing their market power, for a total of $570 billion. Of that, single payer would spend $110 billion extending coverage to all, $142 billion on eliminating co-pays and increasing utilization, especially home health care and dental, and $74 billion to raise Medicaid payment rates to providers, for a net savings of $244 billion.

    Friedman modeled one financing scheme consistent with HR 676: current federal health spending, current state Medicaid spending, plus a small financial transactions tax, high income surtax (6 percent on top 5 percent of income-earners), surtax on unearned income (6 percent), and 4-7 percent payroll tax (4 percent on bottom 40 percent). Compared with what people pay today in taxes, premiums and out-of-pocket payments, single payer would save money for 95 percent of Americans while providing medically necessary care to all."

    Funding a National Single-Payer System | Physicians for a National Health Program
    Ah, my friend it is always good to hear from you.
    Keyword here I think is profits, after all America is a Capitalist country which runs on money , profits.

    However my question is as I have said on another thread without income to the government money gets lower profits will shrink because a majority of profits depend on Tax Revenue.

    The government must get Tax revenue from working people making a high enough wage to pay taxes.
    The American government can not keep borrowing money and printing money, in the long run this will not furnish profits but bankruptcy.
    Tiki bar regular.
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  10. #330
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
    I did understand you very well. It might be YOUR individual interest to do so. But compared to the addition of million of other individual interests, it doesn't weight very much, that's what I am saying. And that is why Obama care was voted at the end: it will hopefully benefit lots of million of people even if it does not benefit YOU personally.
    But it's not in his individual interest. Living in a place with such a system means much more money for his care
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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