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Thread: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

  1. #261
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
    Don't you have any more substabcial response to my post which was about the principles underlying many ventures in this world, including charities to fight heart decreases and insurance policies ... If you think these ventures are only "good intentions", I bet you already live in hell ...
    Your veiw of the world are completely different. Your from Europe. I am an American. Thats two completely different ways of viewing it. Your government is resposible for your well being. Nobody but myself is responsible for mine. You are a subject of your government, I am soveriegn.

    Society is based on the concept contract or mutual benifit. Its a quid pro quo relationship. The benifits must outweigh the downfalls or it is useless. It is not about caring about others.

    Side note the health care "system" in the US is not like your or pretty much anybody elses in the world. Its more of a ad hoch collection indiviaduals and businesses.
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  2. #262
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Your veiw of the world are completely different. Your from Europe. I am an American. Thats two completely different ways of viewing it. Your government is resposible for your well being. Nobody but myself is responsible for mine. You are a subject of your government, I am soveriegn. .
    The fantasies of conservatives are getting more and more ornate.

  3. #263
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    And if you learned more about them, you would learn that compared to what is available here in America, they aren't worth crap.
    That is why none of the rest of the industrialized world wants to go back to our type of system?
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  4. #264
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateMk1 View Post
    Your veiw of the world are completely different. Your from Europe. I am an American. Thats two completely different ways of viewing it. Your government is resposible for your well being. Nobody but myself is responsible for mine. You are a subject of your government, I am soveriegn.

    Society is based on the concept contract or mutual benifit. Its a quid pro quo relationship. The benifits must outweigh the downfalls or it is useless. It is not about caring about others.

    Side note the health care "system" in the US is not like your or pretty much anybody elses in the world. Its more of a ad hoch collection indiviaduals and businesses.
    Err ... No, in fact, I feel I am completely responsible for my own well-being, thank you. I don't think my government is responsible for me ... My government is responsible for all kind of stuff but not for me.

    Besides being responsible for myself, I am also smart enough to want to pay the least possible for the highest possible well-being return. Get the highest return on any investment. This means that in some cases pooling resources with others will allow to get the highest return for myself. This is the case of health care for two reasons:
    1 - Risk assessment (the probability to become ill is quite high in a life time and increases with aging)
    2 -The high costs potentially associated with the realization of this risk.

    This pays out. Pooling resources collectively to pay for health care pays out. International comparsions are all quite unequivocal: these "pretty much anybody elses in the world" systems you refer to use for international comparaisons all fair better than the US in terms of investment (cost) and in terms of return of investment (degree of health).

    I don't think I need to post a link to demonstrate this well-known fact.

    To finish with, society may not be based on "caring for" but needs "caring for" and "feeling concern" to go forward.

  5. #265
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
    Err ... No, in fact, I feel I am completely responsible for my own well-being, thank you. I don't think my government is responsible for me ... My government is responsible for all kind of stuff but not for me.

    Besides being responsible for myself, I am also smart enough to want to pay the least possible for the highest possible well-being return. Get the highest return on any investment. This means that in some cases pooling resources with others will allow to get the highest return for myself. This is the case of health care for two reasons:
    1 - Risk assessment (the probability to become ill is quite high in a life time and increases with aging)
    2 -The high costs potentially associated with the realization of this risk.

    This pays out. Pooling resources collectively to pay for health care pays out. International comparsions are all quite unequivocal: these "pretty much anybody elses in the world" systems you refer to use for international comparaisons all fair better than the US in terms of investment (cost) and in terms of return of investment (degree of health).

    I don't think I need to post a link to demonstrate this well-known fact.

    To finish with, society may not be based on "caring for" but needs "caring for" and "feeling concern" to go forward.
    So, you claim to be responsible for yourself and thus have chosen to pool your resources. But that only works if everyone chooses the same along with you. Those who would not choose as you have are denied that personal responsibility.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Actually, read some of the CDC pages. There is a fairly large difference between medical problems with different races/ethnicities. Cancer rates, heart disease rates, etc. Only people with African heritage get sickle cell, only people with European noble heritage get Hemophilia. America is multi-heritage/genetic, Germany is mostly mono-heritage.
    I am not sure whether I should laugh at such a naive response or cry ...

    Don't you see that people of African heritage, as you label it, are also those who have the less access to health care in the USA? Wouldn't you think that their reduced access to health care is the cause of their higher decease rates rather than ... their genes? In fact, your example shows exactly this: all race/ethnicities don't get equal access to care. If they did, it wouldn't so much matter with what kind of illness they are being cured for ... African people would get cured for their sickle cells and European people for their hemopholia ...

    Besides, contrary to what wou think, Germany too has a mixed population, or France, or the Netherlands ...

  7. #267
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    And if you learned more about them, you would learn that compared to what is available here in America, they aren't worth crap.
    The WHO would disagree with that, but then, what do they know? How can we take their word over that of someone posting anonymously posting on an internet forum?
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    So, you claim to be responsible for yourself and thus have chosen to pool your resources. But that only works if everyone chooses the same along with you. Those who would not choose as you have are denied that personal responsibility.
    Well, as I said before, you can always chose to live in a cave all by yourself. I don't think anybody can take that right away from you ... There seems to be a lot of smart people who, however, chose to live in a society with other people and pool resources in order to get a higher benefit for themselves and their families. They get better services too, which allows them to go on their private business without worrying. These people live longer and healthier than cave people.

  9. #269
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Sucre View Post
    Well, as I said before, you can always chose to live in a cave all by yourself. I don't think anybody can take that right away from you ... There seems to be a lot of smart people who, however, chose to live in a society with other people and pool resources in order to get a higher benefit for themselves and their families. They get better services too, which allows them to go on their private business without worrying. These people live longer and healthier than cave people.
    No, you can't. Not without interference from the well-meaning like yourself who really insist you jump in the pool with them. But hey, my post was to answer your bit about being allowed to be responsible for yourself under your system of government.

  10. #270
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, you can't. Not without interference from the well-meaning like yourself who really insist you jump in the pool with them. But hey, my post was to answer your bit about being allowed to be responsible for yourself under your system of government.
    So you're not free? I think you should take responsibility for your freedom.
    If you want not to jump in a pool that several like myself have decided to set up, there are a couple of possibilities. If you want no interference AT ALL, just go. As I said, nobody can prevent you from going and living in a cave... If you want to stay within a set group of people, let say because you have a family, you can still opt for a "I pay all my health care by myself" - simply don't take any salaried position and do not contract any private health insurance ... There is always a way not to participate in society.

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