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New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

Re: We're Number......LAST

Sure, just agree to pay a bunch of higher prices instead. We voted on that. Outsourcing won. Higher prices lost.


No, you're mistaken alright. Even in countries run by harsh communist dictators, GDP is based on the output of real goods and services. That's why it's called Gross Domestic PRODUCT, not Gross Domestic MONEY.


In the real world, the people you want to call loan sharks are crawling across the floor and begging Please, please, please, take my money. You can pay me almost no interest at all. That would be wonderful in fact, just please take my money.


Gotta love it. So what does the new and better system look like again? People who don't know and can't explain how the current model is put together want to burn it to the ground in a belief that they'll figure out a way to raise up a new and better phoenix from the ashes. It's all a bunch of pie-in-the-sky hooey.

If Americans were paid a higher wage they would in fact pay a higher wage.
Higher prices may have won but so did low stagnent wage.

The output of real goods and services? MADE IN China, Japan Tai Wan, Mexico
Imports vs exports how balanvced are they??

I can't see China begging America to take their money but I could see American politicians begging China for a loan. Just as I can see corporations begging American taxpayers for money during a bailout.


Perhaps it is the pie in the sky possibility , is that not better than the debt ridden, IOU ridden system we have now?:peace
 
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Re: We're Number......LAST

I am making a good argument for lazy ****s to go back to work.

Uhhh, how many people are on TANF and what is their average age. Come on, you can say it?
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Bush abandoned Afghanistan. Which is why Obama had to go back. Bush then got us quagmired in Iraq for no reason at all. Obama got us out of that. Couldn't necessarily save the dishes and silverware, but indeed we are out after proving only that some people learned nothing from Vietnam. Oh, and that bin Laden guy is dead too.


LOL! Policy doesnt enter into it. Since 1969, we've had a budget deficit every year but four. All under Clinton. But thanks to Bush, you will not live to see that happen again.


Got history? Attempts to get a national health insurance program in place in this country go back nearly a century to the AALL/AMA effort just before WWI. It was overtaken by events. The Depression and WWII overshadowed further efforts such as those by the CCMC and FDR's National Health Act of 1939. Truman pushed hard for a national single-payer plan after the war, but in the era of the Red Scare, idiot reactionaries were able to associate it with Communism and it too died. In the 1950's, progressives changed tactics and in the end were able to pass Medicare and Medicaid. Nixon and Ted Kennedy were very close to agreement on a national health care program, but it was overtaken by Watergate. Clinton's efforts in the early 1990's followed some earlier ones in falling victim to tactical errors. Finally, Obama came around to the back door and had Congress write the plan and HCR was passed at last. Bush? Not a player.


DOEd has been there since Carter. No one intends to knock it down. Big words are all hot air.


Again, the history. NCLB originated under LBJ. Bush just changed the name in 2001 because at that time, he wanted to be "The Education President" when he grew up. Curricula are of course defined at the state and local level and so is testing. Testing was obviously not new either, but high-stakes "teaching to the test" was, and nobody much liked that or the unfunded mandate part of things or the draining of funds out of schools that needed them most. As the result, NCLB was essentially gutted by Obama in 2011. His new bill was passed in the Senate, but faced yet another partisan blockade over in the House. So Obama used an Executive Order to provide waivers to more than half the states (the ones with a lot of at-risk kids and schools), removing them from coverage under the act. NCLB is effectively dead. You think killing it is the same as supporting it.


You didn't do your homework. But you can copy off mine if you like and impress friends and family with how much you learned in school today.

NCLB passed in 2001. Was LBJ president in your parallel universe in 2001?

The No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 (NCLB)[1][2] is a United States Act of Congress that is a reauthorization of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act, which included Title I, the government's flagship aid program for disadvantaged students.[3] NCLB supports standards-based education reform based on the premise that setting high standards and establishing measurable goals can improve individual outcomes in education. The Act requires states to develop assessments in basic skills. States must give these assessments to all students at select grade levels in order to receive federal school funding. The Act does not assert a national achievement standard; standards are set by each individual state.[4] NCLB expanded the federal role in public education through annual testing, annual academic progress, report cards, teacher qualifications, and funding changes.[3]
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Cardinal Fang said:
Again, the history. NCLB originated under LBJ. Bush just changed the name in 2001 because at that time, he wanted to be "The Education President" when he grew up.

NCLB passed in 2001. Was LBJ president in your parallel universe in 2001?


In the very first sentence of your link is this "...reauthorization of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act."

Which leads to this...

The Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) (Pub.L. 89–10, 79 Stat. 27, 20 U.S.C. ch.70), is a United States federal statute enacted April 11, 1965. It was passed as a part of President Lyndon B. Johnson's "War on Poverty" and has been the most far-reaching federal legislation affecting education ever passed by Congress.

Elementary and Secondary Education Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

In the very first sentence of your link is this "...reauthorization of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act."

Which leads to this...

the ESEA goes back many years, yes.
NCLB was a creation of the Bush WH, most likely due to the friendship between the Bushes and the Hills of McGraw/Hill, publishers of the test.

The Obama WH doubled down on NCLB by pressuring school districts to use the test as a teacher evaluation tool. They called it "Race to the Top."

All this bureaucratic BS is the result of the federal government sticking its nose where the Constitution doesn't give it the power to stick its nose.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

I love the title of this thread.

Dead last is exactly what I want to be, everyone else can go first. ;)
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

I can't see China begging America to take their money but I could see American politicians begging China for a loan.
You realize that China's large trade surpluses give them huge amounts of foreign exchange reserves? Those are big piles of money that are not renminbi. What do you expect them to do with those piles, the largest one of which is US dollars?

Just as I can see corporations begging American taxpayers for money during a bailout.
The bailouts were not for the benefit of the banks or bankers, but for the benefit of the hundreds of millions whose lives and interests would have been crushed in a global financial system collapse that was looming ever closer. Some people are like the nearly-drowned man who complains that his life-preserver chafed a little bit as he was being dragged from the water.

Perhaps it is the pie in the sky possibility , is that not better than the debt ridden, IOU ridden system we have now?:peace.
All manner of loons have been promising a better tomorrow for eons, but as bad as their plans virtually always are, it's the burning everything down first part that I actually object to.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

the ESEA goes back many years, yes. NCLB was a creation of the Bush WH, most likely due to the friendship between the Bushes and the Hills of McGraw/Hill, publishers of the test.
NCLB was a cosmetic name change. The unfunded mandate requiring all states to implement standardized statewide testing was indeed a gift to Business Roundtable types of up to $5 billion per year. And Bush indeed had a long-time relationship with Harold McGraw, but McGraw-Hill, was only one of the beneficiaries. People like Houghton-Mifflin, and Harcourt made out well also as did a couple of startup outifts, such as Ignite! Learning (founded by Neil Bush) and K-12, Inc. (owned by Bill Bennett). Just more Kenny-Boy crony capitalism by Bush.

The Obama WH doubled down on NCLB by pressuring school districts to use the test as a teacher evaluation tool. They called it "Race to the Top."
LOL! Race to the Top is a natonal contest funded out of ARRA that gives money to schools instead of taking it away. It is a shift-the-focus effort based on local creativity and innovation, that looks as much at the conditions, methods, and efforts of principals and teachers as at those of students. It does not focus on simple testing, but rather on building a much broader set of goals and standards. Students after all attend a school, but it is teachers and administrators make it.

All this bureaucratic BS is the result of the federal government sticking its nose where the Constitution doesn't give it the power to stick its nose.
Ah, the Bizarro Constitution is brought into play once again. What a useless document THAT piece of trash is!
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

NCLB was a cosmetic name change. The unfunded mandate requiring all states to implement standardized statewide testing was indeed a gift to Business Roundtable types of up to $5 billion per year. And Bush indeed had a long-time relationship with Harold McGraw, but McGraw-Hill, was only one of the beneficiaries. People like Houghton-Mifflin, and Harcourt made out well also as did a couple of startup outifts, such as Ignite! Learning (founded by Neil Bush) and K-12, Inc. (owned by Bill Bennett). Just more Kenny-Boy crony capitalism by Bush.

Finally, we can agree on something.

Which, of course, means that you're right some of the time.

LOL! Race to the Top is a natonal contest funded out of ARRA that gives money to schools instead of taking it away. It is a shift-the-focus effort based on local creativity and innovation, that looks as much at the conditions, methods, and efforts of principals and teachers as at those of students. It does not focus on simple testing, but rather on building a much broader set of goals and standards. Students after all attend a school, but it is teachers and administrators make it.

Correct, but to participate in "race to the top" schools have to use the standardized test results to evaluate teachers. Locally, the school district and the union just had a knock down, drag out fight about that one. The school district won.

Ah, the Bizarro Constitution is brought into play once again. What a useless document THAT piece of trash is!

Thank you for that. Now, we know the basis for your political philosophy.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

You realize that China's large trade surpluses give them huge amounts of foreign exchange reserves? Those are big piles of money that are not renminbi. What do you expect them to do with those piles, the largest one of which is US dollars?


The bailouts were not for the benefit of the banks or bankers, but for the benefit of the hundreds of millions whose lives and interests would have been crushed in a global financial system collapse that was looming ever closer. Some people are like the nearly-drowned man who complains that his life-preserver chafed a little bit as he was being dragged from the water.


All manner of loons have been promising a better tomorrow for eons, but as bad as their plans virtually always are, it's the burning everything down first part that I actually object to.

I don't live in China I live in America , what China does with their money is not my concern what America does with taxpayer money is.


Perhaps if America competed in a global society instead of depending on the labor, products, and energy of other nations.
They would have a life preserver of the American consumers instead of crying like a bitch to the American government for more money.

Sorry I disagree with your statement because of two facts.
1 If it's working don't fix it
2 If it's broke try something different.

Can you actually say without a doubt the current economic system is the best America can do and is working fine?

Perhaps being in more debt has become the new way of doing business in America, but not for this American, and I don't think I am alone:peace
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Correct, but to participate in "race to the top" schools have to use the standardized test results to evaluate teachers.
No, that wasn't even a part of NCLB. Students and schools were rated, but not teachers. And more than half the states aren't actually subject to much of NCLB anymore anyway. RTTT actively pushes away from that idea by encouraging schools to adopt common goals and standards, but to rely on broad and locally developed measures for evaluating progress and assessing the contributions of both teachers and administrators. Scores on the range of tests that students take might well be used in many systems, but the days of high-stakes testing as the pass-fail holy grail for anybody are over in most places now and soon will be everywhere else.

Locally, the school district and the union just had a knock down, drag out fight about that one. The school district won.
Likely a matter of contract law. The Feds only define the playing field. The rules of the game are still state and local matters.

Thank you for that. Now, we know the basis for your political philosophy.
There has of late been a great deal of dumbing-down done and disinformation written about the US Constitution. When people start in with their whining about how the Feds are exceeding their Constitutional authority, it is an almost sure bet that the whiner has dumped the US Constitution in favor of the Bizarro Constitution.
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

No, that wasn't even a part of NCLB. Students and schools were rated, but not teachers. And more than half the states aren't actually subject to much of NCLB anymore anyway. RTTT actively pushes away from that idea by encouraging schools to adopt common goals and standards, but to rely on broad and locally developed measures for evaluating progress and assessing the contributions of both teachers and administrators. Scores on the range of tests that students take might well be used in many systems, but the days of high-stakes testing as the pass-fail holy grail for anybody are over in most places now and soon will be everywhere else.


Likely a matter of contract law. The Feds only define the playing field. The rules of the game are still state and local matters.


There has of late been a great deal of dumbing-down done and disinformation written about the US Constitution. When people start in with their whining about how the Feds are exceeding their Constitutional authority, it is an almost sure bet that the whiner has dumped the US Constitution in favor of the Bizarro Constitution.

Race to the top:

Attracting and keeping great teachers and leaders in America’s classrooms, by expanding effective support to teachers and principals; reforming and improving teacher preparation; revising teacher evaluation, compensation, and retention policies to encourage and reward effectiveness;

California recently enacted legislation to enable student achievement data to be linked to teacher and principal performance. Indiana now permits the use of student performance data for teacher evaluation and Wisconsin, with the support of the state teachers union, has recently introduced and is considering legislation to do the same. New York is also considering similar legislation.

Student achievement data means the results of the end of the year test that has to be given under NCLB. They may talk about "multiple measures", but there no data from reading inventories, writing samples, math samples, teacher made tests, or anything else other than the test. In California, that means the STAR test.

This much is true:
No, that wasn't even a part of NCLB. Students and schools were rated, but not teachers

Under the "race to the top", teachers are also rated based on the students' performance on the big test.

Now, the Constitution: I suppose it must be the "Bizarro" one that includes the tenth amendment, the one that prohibits taking life, liberty, or property without due process, the one that gives Congress the power to declare war, and provides for a balance of powers, correct?
 
Re: We're Number......LAST

Race to the top:
Thank you for confirming the ongoing phase-out of NCLB and its still in progress in some places replacement by the ARRA-funded Race to the Top which rewards successful schools rather than punishing those that fall behind while putting an end to the era of high-stakes testing and bringing evaluations of teachers and administrators to the fore for the first time. It doesn't sound like California is exactly on the cutting edge here however. As we know, California suffers from being a liberal cesspool created by such ultra-Keynesians as Arnold Schwarzenegger and Howard Jarvis, so I guess that's only to be expected. A lack (including removal if necessary) of any impediments to access regarrding any state-maintained education data in a form that allows linking to individual schools, teachers, and administrators has been one of the conditions for state participation in RTTT from the beginning. The intent is to de-emphasize, not eliminate, statewide testing as reflected in the fact that student achievement as defined in RTTT refers to results in tested grades from any testing administered under ESEA plus other measures of student learning that are rigorous and comparable across classrooms. Systems to foster development and implementation of the latter within Local Education Agencies are one of the key points of RTTT as it seeks to put more of the education system into the decentralized hands of those who know the effects of the system best.

Now, the Constitution: I suppose it must be the "Bizarro" one that includes the tenth amendment, the one that prohibits taking life, liberty, or property without due process, the one that gives Congress the power to declare war, and provides for a balance of powers, correct?
I actually know of the document's particulars only second-hand from being so regularly informed of various of its provisions by right-wing whackos, but principally the Bizarro Constitution (BC) seems to be even weaker than the Articles of Confederation, conferring no power at all upon the federal government that the whacko in question personally objects to. It seems quite fair to conclude that the BC states that no power can exist that hasn't been specifically enumerated, that any enumeration at all was probably a mistake and therefore not part of original intent, and that whatever survives follows rather peculiar rules of grammar and syntax that serve to make it all but unintelligible to liberals. That's sort of a short-form overview from recent recollection. Perhaps some BC scholars will happen along and flesh things out a little for us.

As far as the US Constitution goes, the Tenth Amendment is of course entirely residual, conferring no actual power upon anyone, due process is mentioned and protected in both the 5th and 14th Amendments, while the Congressional power to declare war is found in Article 1. While it may effect a balance of powers, the concept per se is not introduced.
 
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