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Thread: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

  1. #181
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Problems of scale abound in other industries and are regularly resolved by them. How can USPS get a letter from any American to any other American within two days for 45 cents? If our health care system were that efficient, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
    Not a good example I am afraid. The USPS is bleeding money at the moment. Their problem is the internet and competition that is vastly more efficient than they are. I have a hunch the USPS will not be around a few years from now. At least not as we know it.
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by BretJ View Post
    Not a good example I am afraid. The USPS is bleeding money at the moment. Their problem is the internet and competition that is vastly more efficient than they are. I have a hunch the USPS will not be around a few years from now. At least not as we know it.

    The problem is what Congress did to their pension system

  3. #183
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Problems of scale abound in other industries and are regularly resolved by them. How can USPS get a letter from any American to any other American within two days for 45 cents? If our health care system were that efficient, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
    Sadly they can't deliver that letter for 45 cents, not without the occasional infusion of cash from elsewhere.

  4. #184
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by gingern44 View Post
    I disagree. You need look no further than the tax code. I'd love to see the German tax code stacked next to ours. The proverbial mole hill vs the mountain. I have no doubt you would find the same is true in labor law, health & safety, retirement plan regs, environmental law, healthcare, on and on. And that's just the federal level add state, county, local and all kinds of regional orgs.
    You must be joking! The German tax code is just as obtuse, and their bureaucracy more intense. The economy is far more regulated than the US.

    Last year I was watching a seminar on CSPAN, it was either the Chamber of Comm or NFIB so they were definitely business folks. One guy gave rehash of trying to open two sister factories in N. America & Europe. They decide on S. Carolina and Germany. The short version of it was 3 years from starting the process the German factory was within a year of being fully operational. In the US they gave up and were building in Mexico.

    The long version was painful. 3 years on the fed and state govts were locked in a battle over the land the company had already purchased with state and local help. He laughed about the fact that the company was gone yet the p###ing match between state & fed carried on. But that was just the big problem. The reality was in the numbers of different govt agencies he had to deal with. In Ger within a year they knew exactly where they stood on everything, building permits to sick leave to safety regs to taxes. Over here 3 years on the company was still discovering new govt agencies throwing up roadblocks. If you throw in what is probably or possibly coming down the road it's a wonder anyone would build here.
    And in Germany, they went on a TV show and said that the US factory opened earlier!!

    And what's that you say? The govt helped them buy land?

    Damn that bureaucracy!!
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  5. #185
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    If someone thinks other countries have such great healthcare, go see. I did, it's not so great in Europe.
    It's a hell of a lot better than here.

    I didn't experience any wait. In fact, it was twice as fast as it is in America, in my experience.

    And then there's the simple fact that I was able to access health care at all without pawning half my belongings. I have a good job with insurance, and I live in a state with one of the best public care systems in the country, and still, one little tiny illness is enough to completely screw me financially. Standard deductibles on high-deductible plans have quadrupled just since I was in high school, less than a decade ago.

    Honestly, I felt embarrassed for my country when I saw what healthcare was like in Europe. Completely ashamed.

  6. #186
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    It's a hell of a lot better than here.

    I didn't experience any wait. In fact, it was twice as fast as it is in America, in my experience.

    And then there's the simple fact that I was able to access health care at all without pawning half my belongings. I have a good job with insurance, and I live in a state with one of the best public care systems in the country, and still, one little tiny illness is enough to completely screw me financially. Standard deductibles on high-deductible plans have quadrupled just since I was in high school, less than a decade ago.

    Honestly, I felt embarrassed for my country when I saw what healthcare was like in Europe. Completely ashamed.
    First, I don't consider healthcare to be a right and so we might have some different ideas there. Anyway, I found the Euro system, particularly in Sweden where I lived for two years, simply atrocious. Forget about the shoddy and slow general care, the geriatric care was a miscarriage of intergenerational justice, as elders we cast aside into squalor, the lowest competency employees (generally uneducated immigrants from developing countries with a certificate in bed-changing) and constant nation-wide rotating strikes. I lived with the regional manager for geriatric hospitals and carehomes and the horror stories that she would tell...

  7. #187
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Even more of a concern when contrasted with this:

    Healthcare spending around the world, country by country

    "The US spends more than any other country in the world on healthcare"

    Healthcare spending around the world, country by country | News | guardian.co.uk
    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    It's a hell of a lot better than here.

    I didn't experience any wait. In fact, it was twice as fast as it is in America, in my experience.

    And then there's the simple fact that I was able to access health care at all without pawning half my belongings. I have a good job with insurance, and I live in a state with one of the best public care systems in the country, and still, one little tiny illness is enough to completely screw me financially. Standard deductibles on high-deductible plans have quadrupled just since I was in high school, less than a decade ago.

    Honestly, I felt embarrassed for my country when I saw what healthcare was like in Europe. Completely ashamed.


    Indeed, a whole new industry has sprung up in the US to help direct "medical tourists" from the US to better and less expensive medical services abroad.
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  8. #188
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    First, I don't consider healthcare to be a right and so we might have some different ideas there. Anyway, I found the Euro system, particularly in Sweden where I lived for two years, simply atrocious. Forget about the shoddy and slow general care, the geriatric care was a miscarriage of intergenerational justice, as elders we cast aside into squalor, the lowest competancy employees and constant nation-wide rotating strikes. I lived with the regional manager for geriatric hospitals and carehomes and the horror stories that she would tell...
    I could certainly imagine it varies by country. Sweden is one of the places I haven't been.

    There can be a wait if you have something rare, but that's true no matter where you are -- America too. Hell, I had to wait over a month for "emergency" surgery to remove a cyst that could have burst and killed me at any moment. And again, this is in one of the best states in the country for health care, and I had insurance.

    Also, American care homes can be extremely foul. I have found that to be true the world over, actually. Elderly care in general, everywhere, is atrocious. When I lived in NZ, I used to walk by a care facility on my way home from work, and I would stop every night and talk to a lady who lived there, because not only did she never get visitors, but the nurses pretty much just ignored her. She was wheelchair-bound, and they just left her to struggle, fall, get sores, etc. It was despicable. But it's just as bad here.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 01-16-13 at 04:40 AM.

  9. #189
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    First, I don't consider healthcare to be a right and so we might have some different ideas there. Anyway, I found the Euro system, particularly in Sweden where I lived for two years, simply atrocious. Forget about the shoddy and slow general care, the geriatric care was a miscarriage of intergenerational justice, as elders we cast aside into squalor, the lowest competency employees (generally uneducated immigrants from developing countries with a certificate in bed-changing) and constant nation-wide rotating strikes. I lived with the regional manager for geriatric hospitals and carehomes and the horror stories that she would tell...
    Sweden may not be the best example. Germany in my opinion is the best health care example. I've been through the medical system in every different form in the US, and I've been through a lot in Germany whether me or my family or extended family, and I have to say every experience I've had has been pretty stellar. The wait times for surgeries are a fraction what they are in the US, absolutely everything is covered, and the doctors and equipment are more than competent.

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    I could certainly imagine it varies by country. Sweden is one of the places I haven't been.

    There can be a wait if you have something rare, but that's true no matter where you are -- America too. Hell, I had to wait over a month for "emergency" surgery to remove a cyst that could have burst and killed me at any moment. And again, this is in one of the best states in the country for health care, and I had insurance.

    Also, American care homes can be extremely foul. I have found that to be true the world over, actually. Elderly care in general, everywhere, is atrocious. When I lived in NZ, I used to walk by a care facility on my way home from work, and I would stop every night and talk to a lady who lived there, because not only did she never get visitors, but the nurses pretty much just ignored her. She was wheelchair-bound, and they just left her to struggle, fall, get sores, etc. It was despicable.
    It's funny you bring up a cyst example. My mother in law here in Germany just had a cyst, as soon as she noticed it, she went to the doctor the same day, and he scheduled her for surgery the next day. That was even considered (for her at least) a non-emergency surgery. I still can't get over how much faster and cheaper the German system is to ours.
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  10. #190
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    It's funny you bring up a cyst example. My mother in law here in Germany just had a cyst, as soon as she noticed it, she went to the doctor the same day, and he scheduled her for surgery the next day. That was even considered (for her at least) a non-emergency surgery. I still can't get over how much faster and cheaper the German system is to ours.
    It didn't start as an emergency, but I had to go through so many referrals before I got to someone who was qualified to assess such a rare kind of cyst that by the time I got there -- some 2 months later -- it had become pretty serious. There was no reason for me to go through half a dozen different doctors. It was obviously unusual on the ultrasound. They could have sent me to a specialist right away, but no, because specialists are booked out for months, so they send you to someone less qualified instead and hope for the best.

    I can't help but laugh when Americans go on about wait times in other countries.

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