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Thread: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

  1. #161
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by gingern44 View Post
    I disagree. You need look no further than the tax code. I'd love to see the German tax code stacked next to ours. The proverbial mole hill vs the mountain. I have no doubt you would find the same is true in labor law, health & safety, retirement plan regs, environmental law, healthcare, on and on. And that's just the federal level add state, county, local and all kinds of regional orgs.

    Last year I was watching a seminar on CSPAN, it was either the Chamber of Comm or NFIB so they were definitely business folks. One guy gave rehash of trying to open two sister factories in N. America & Europe. They decide on S. Carolina and Germany. The short version of it was 3 years from starting the process the German factory was within a year of being fully operational. In the US they gave up and were building in Mexico.

    The long version was painful. 3 years on the fed and state govts were locked in a battle over the land the company had already purchased with state and local help. He laughed about the fact that the company was gone yet the p###ing match between state & fed carried on. But that was just the big problem. The reality was in the numbers of different govt agencies he had to deal with. In Ger within a year they knew exactly where they stood on everything, building permits to sick leave to safety regs to taxes. Over here 3 years on the company was still discovering new govt agencies throwing up roadblocks. If you throw in what is probably or possibly coming down the road it's a wonder anyone would build here.
    Hey, that's Germany. The papers here were complaining about our tax code just a couple of days ago.

    It's listed as deaths per 100,000, which is completely useless. Frankly, I've seen more reliable statistics compiled by community college students. DABASSE is a politically driven organization, not a scientific one. Their goal is to push policy.
    How is that useless? It's adjusted for population....

  2. #162
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I don't need to refute them. The studies referenced in this thread refute them.
    ??? Where?

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    No, the facts don't support this claim. Every study made has shown that malpractice insurance/lawsuits adds a de minimus amount to health care inflation, less than 1%.

    Morever most malpractice suits are brought against a small group of physicians, who keep causing harm, but who remain in practice because the AMA has trouble policing itself. Something like 5% of doctors are responsible for about 90% of malpractice claims. If the AMA would do a better job weeding out bad doctors, we wouldn't have this problem.
    So why does an aspirin cost $25.00 in a hospital? What could possible be the reason for that?

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    So why does an aspirin cost $25.00 in a hospital? What could possible be the reason for that?
    5 cents for the aspirin, and $24.95 for the delivery.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Interesting, Death by traffic accidents is around twice is high as death by all violence. Some want the ban guns because a few abuse them, then by that same logic, we should be trying to ban automobiles.

    Lets see other factors in this, such as Welfare rates, Obesity rates (yeah, were the tops there), and why only 17 countries? Including all would screw up their bias too much? I know people don't like to include race related issues with health, but things like hypertension and other factors are higher among blacks than whites. What is the racial influences in these factors?

    from Ethnicity and Race by Countries — Infoplease.com
    US--White: 211,460,626 (75.1%); Black: 34,658,190 (12.3%); Asian: 10,242,998 (3.6%); American Indian and Alaska Native: 2,475,956 (0.9%); Native Hawaiian and other Pacific Islander: 398,835 (0.1%); other race: 15,359,073 (5.5%); Hispanic origin:1 35,305,818 (12.5%)
    Japan--Japanese 99%; Korean, Chinese, Brazillian, Filipino, other 1% (2004)
    Switzerland--German 65%, French 18%, Italian 10%, Romansch 1%, other 6%
    Canada--British Isles origin 28%, French origin 23%, other European 15%, indigenous Indian and Inuit 2%, other, mostly Asian, African, Arab 6%, mixed background 26%

    You can look up the rest on the list if you want, but notice that disparity is broadest in the US.

    Teen pregnancy rates in US by race CDC - Graphics Data Descriptions - Teen Pregnancy - Reproductive Health , this is 15-19 by #/1,000
    for 2011
    White -- 22
    Black -- 47
    Hispanic -- 49

    All have decreased in the last 10 years.

    From the CDC
    Infant mortality
    White-- 5.11%
    Black-- 11.42
    Hispanic -- not given that I found.

    From Health Status - Texas - Kaiser State Health Facts
    Death rate from heart disease
    White 177/100,000
    Black 234.6/100,000

    Ok, enough for now. When it comes to health-care and other factors that influence the numbers given, racial disparity definitely has a role. So when considering these types of comparisons, take into account these different factors. We have many other factors influencing us that they don't have.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Lets see other factors in this, such as Welfare rates, Obesity rates (yeah, were the tops there), and why only 17 countries? Including all would screw up their bias too much? I know people don't like to include race related issues with health, but things like hypertension and other factors are higher among blacks than whites. What is the racial influences in these factors?
    Very funny. This is a list of *developed* countries. Obviously including Mali and China would put the US in a relatively high position. That's not the point.

  7. #167
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Interesting, Death by traffic accidents is around twice is high as death by all violence. Some want the ban guns because a few abuse them, then by that same logic, we should be trying to ban automobiles.
    I understand the appeal behind using this analogy and the ease with which it flows from your fingers onto the "page".

    However, it's really not a relevant stat for use in comparison.

    An automobile is not designed nor intended to kill people. It's designed as transportation.
    Accidents happen and accidents do kill crap-loads of people.

    Some guns are specifically designed to kill human beings and to be extremely efficient at killing as well.

    Same goes for the "hammers kill more people than assault rifles do" mantra.
    While it's true, the "lets ban hammers" reply does not hold water.

    Nobody called for box cutters to be banned after 9-11.

    We did however stop all airplanes from flying for a small time and instituted stricter rules for what can be brought onto airplanes by passengers. You can argue that those measures are not working, or are knee-jerk over-reactions that don't make any of us any safer, or that they are an invasion of your privacy, but to date I'm fairly sure not one airplane in the USofA has been hijacked since 9-11.

    yes - cars kill people, but that's not their intent. Some guns are designed and intended for nothing other than killing people. Some are designed and intended for killing lots of people in a very short period of time.

    That's the crux of the debate.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    So why does an aspirin cost $25.00 in a hospital? What could possible be the reason for that?
    Because health care has no price elasticity, which is why fee for service is the wrong model. In addition there is information inequality in a hospital setting. If you're sick and hospitalized, you're there to get well, not to negotiation the price of an aspirin, especially since if your hospitalized you probably have bigger problems, and you'll pay anything to get cured.

    All this has been thoroughly studied by economists.

    Our model fails and will continue to fail. Markets cannot provide efficient health care.
    Last edited by head of joaquin; 01-15-13 at 04:25 PM.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    Which is exactly why my Living Will is written the way it is. Even while I have insurance, any medical service that would be required to be paid for by the Government is not allowed. I figure I've got about 3 years (tops) before I end up toast once I reach age 65.
    Hmmm. You must have a pre-exsiting condition or have been a very bad boy. Average male life expectancy at age 65 is 17.2 years. And of course, your current insurance company may require that you sign up for Medicare once you turn 65. Depends on who the carrier is and what sort of coverage you have and expect to continue beyond that point.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Figures that are irrelevant to the quality or cost of care are irrelevant to the quality or cost of care. But it not a shock that you would defend them as relevant anyway.
    Dude, we pay the most and get at least very nearly the least. That's a CRAP situation to be in. We need to get out of it. Got any ideas? Obama did.

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