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Thread: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

  1. #151
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    We know you are conservative about this topic, US health care, as you have opposed an upgrade to UHC as every other industrialized country has done.
    Every other industrialized nation doesn't have the US Federal Govt. Bureaucracy on steroids. If I thought for a second that the govt would be an upgrade I'd be on board. The feds will do nothing but increase costs and decrease quality. Just in personnel costs the govt would blow any potential savings away. Replacing private sector workers with govt workers and their lifetime defined bennies would be bad enough but one size fits all medical decisions being made in Washington is down right scary.

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by gingern44 View Post
    Every other industrialized nation doesn't have the US Federal Govt. Bureaucracy on steroids. If I thought for a second that the govt would be an upgrade I'd be on board. The feds will do nothing but increase costs and decrease quality. Just in personnel costs the govt would blow any potential savings away. Replacing private sector workers with govt workers and their lifetime defined bennies would be bad enough but one size fits all medical decisions being made in Washington is down right scary.
    Evidently, you are unaware that administrative costs for medicare is 15% - 20% less than for private insurers, and that's not adding in the profit that private insurers add.
    The unaffordable cost of our present system will force us to upgrade to UHC as the rest of the industrialized world was forced to go with UHC to lower costs.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #153
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by gingern44 View Post
    Every other industrialized nation doesn't have the US Federal Govt. Bureaucracy on steroids. If I thought for a second that the govt would be an upgrade I'd be on board. The feds will do nothing but increase costs and decrease quality. Just in personnel costs the govt would blow any potential savings away. Replacing private sector workers with govt workers and their lifetime defined bennies would be bad enough but one size fits all medical decisions being made in Washington is down right scary.
    No other nation has any kind of US Federal Bureaucracy. Only the US

    France has a French Federal Bureaucracy on steroids. The Germans, a German Federal Bureaucracy on steroids......
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    No other nation has any kind of US Federal Bureaucracy. Only the US

    France has a French Federal Bureaucracy on steroids. The Germans, a German Federal Bureaucracy on steroids......
    I disagree. You need look no further than the tax code. I'd love to see the German tax code stacked next to ours. The proverbial mole hill vs the mountain. I have no doubt you would find the same is true in labor law, health & safety, retirement plan regs, environmental law, healthcare, on and on. And that's just the federal level add state, county, local and all kinds of regional orgs.

    Last year I was watching a seminar on CSPAN, it was either the Chamber of Comm or NFIB so they were definitely business folks. One guy gave rehash of trying to open two sister factories in N. America & Europe. They decide on S. Carolina and Germany. The short version of it was 3 years from starting the process the German factory was within a year of being fully operational. In the US they gave up and were building in Mexico.

    The long version was painful. 3 years on the fed and state govts were locked in a battle over the land the company had already purchased with state and local help. He laughed about the fact that the company was gone yet the p###ing match between state & fed carried on. But that was just the big problem. The reality was in the numbers of different govt agencies he had to deal with. In Ger within a year they knew exactly where they stood on everything, building permits to sick leave to safety regs to taxes. Over here 3 years on the company was still discovering new govt agencies throwing up roadblocks. If you throw in what is probably or possibly coming down the road it's a wonder anyone would build here.

  5. #155
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    No, we have a higher rate of non-fatal violence.
    ok so you have more people getting beat to an inch of their life,and forced to spend the rest of their life as a cripple,atleast we have the decency to end it quickly.

    btw australia has a high rape,assault,theft rate etc,just holding lower homicide rate isnt a very attractive counter argument.
    “[The metric system is the tool of the Devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that’s the way I likes it!” – Abe “Grampa” Simpson”

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Evidently, you are unaware that administrative costs for medicare is 15% - 20% less than for private insurers, and that's not adding in the profit that private insurers add.
    The unaffordable cost of our present system will force us to upgrade to UHC as the rest of the industrialized world was forced to go with UHC to lower costs.
    You are comparing apples to oranges. I couldn't improve on something I read so I just copied it.

    "private insurance is made far less efficient by all sorts of government intrusion in the market-- most notably, the vast subsidies to purchase health insurance, but also mandates on insurers/insurees and restrictions in competition between insurers. So, we're comparing a private insurance market, bound and beaten by the govt, to whatever the govt does. Not exactly a fair fight, if one is trying to compare "markets" to govt provision."

    "Medicare is not actually managed by the federal government. In most places it is managed by private contractors, including such entities as Cigna and Blue Cross...
    "
    "What about the claim that Medicare’s administrative costs are only 2%, compared to 10-15% for private insurers? The problem with this comparison is that it includes the cost of marketing and selling insurance as well as the costs of collecting premiums on the private side, but ignores the cost of collecting taxes on the public side. It also ignores the substantial administrative cost that Medicare shifts to the providers of care."

    "Ironically, many observers think Medicare spends too little on administration, which is one reason for an estimated Medicare fraud loss of one out of every ten dollars of Medicare benefits paid. Private insurers devote more resources to fraud prevention and find it profitable to do so."

  7. #157
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    The highest rate of death by violence, by a stunning margin - Our inner cities are gang warfare zones *cough Chicago* Has nothing to do with our HC system

    The highest rate of death by car accident, also dramatically so - Population of 300 million with a lot of cars. Has nothing to do with HC

    The highest chance that a child will die before age 5 - See number 1

    The second-highest rate of death by coronary heart disease - Let's ban soda sizes. What could possibly go wrong?

    The second-highest rate of death by lung disease - Then ban smoking. Oh wait, they need all that tax money

    The highest teen pregnancy rate - That's a Culture problem. Not a HC problem

    The highest rate of women dying due to complications of pregnancy and childbirth - 3K innocent and defenseless children are murdered in the womb every single day in this country. Most of those babies are black.

    Scandal of dehydrated elderly rushed to hospital because their care homes did not give them a drink | Mail Online

    UK Hospital Rocked by Health Care Scandal - World - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com

    A two-year-long inquiry has exposed widespread neglect and malpractice that led to the unnecessary deaths of up to 1,200 patients at Stafford Hospital in England between 2005 and 2008.

    The London Telegraph reported doctors, nurses, and hospital staff were understaffed and overwhelmed. Consequently, critically-ill patients were regularly overlooked and even given the wrong medication.
    The worst hospital scandal for 10 years - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent

    Patients were 'routinely neglected', says most savage indictment of NHS trust
    Mayor Michael Bloomberg drugs: Bloomberg says combating addiction 'epidemic' is priority as he hits back at claims that plan to restrict prescription painkillers will penalize poor | Mail Online

    'So you'll suffer a little bit': Bloomberg says combating addiction 'epidemic' is priority as he hits back at claims that plan to restrict prescription painkillers will penalize poor
    Obama to Jane Sturm: Hey, take a pill - YouTube

    BROUN: Obamacare: Costs double in two years - Washington Times

    Obamacare Guarantees Higher Health Insurance Premiums -- $3,000+ Higher - Forbes

    Well, that first term is just about up. And health insurance isn’t any cheaper. In fact, it’s more expensive. Premiums have increased by an average of $3,065. And they’re about to go up even more, as Obamacare takes effect during the president’s second term.

    At the end of 2012, Mark Bertolini, the CEO of Aetna, the third-largest health insurer in the country, warned that many consumers would face “premium rate shock” with the advent of Obamacare’s major insurance regulations in 2014. He predicted that unsubsidized premiums would rise 20 to 50 percent, on average.

  8. #158
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by gingern44 View Post
    You are comparing apples to oranges. I couldn't improve on something I read so I just copied it.

    "private insurance is made far less efficient by all sorts of government intrusion in the market-- most notably, the vast subsidies to purchase health insurance, but also mandates on insurers/insurees and restrictions in competition between insurers. So, we're comparing a private insurance market, bound and beaten by the govt, to whatever the govt does. Not exactly a fair fight, if one is trying to compare "markets" to govt provision."

    "Medicare is not actually managed by the federal government. In most places it is managed by private contractors, including such entities as Cigna and Blue Cross...
    "
    "What about the claim that Medicare’s administrative costs are only 2%, compared to 10-15% for private insurers? The problem with this comparison is that it includes the cost of marketing and selling insurance as well as the costs of collecting premiums on the private side, but ignores the cost of collecting taxes on the public side. It also ignores the substantial administrative cost that Medicare shifts to the providers of care."

    "Ironically, many observers think Medicare spends too little on administration, which is one reason for an estimated Medicare fraud loss of one out of every ten dollars of Medicare benefits paid. Private insurers devote more resources to fraud prevention and find it profitable to do so."



    Thanks for the anonymous opinions!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Thanks for the anonymous opinions!
    I note you don't dispute any of those anonymous opinions.

  10. #160
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by gingern44 View Post
    I note you don't dispute any of those anonymous opinions.
    I don't need to refute them. The studies referenced in this thread refute them.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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