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Thread: New Health Rankings: Of 17 Nations, U.S. Is Dead Last

  1. #131
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    No, the facts don't support this claim. Every study made has shown that malpractice insurance/lawsuits adds a de minimus amount to health care inflation, less than 1%.

    Morever most malpractice suits are brought against a small group of physicians, who keep causing harm, but who remain in practice because the AMA has trouble policing itself. Something like 5% of doctors are responsible for about 90% of malpractice claims. If the AMA would do a better job weeding out bad doctors, we wouldn't have this problem.
    Better check those stats before you go hanging an argument on them.

    Related Medical Malpractice Statistics•$4 billion dollars paid by insurers for malpractice in the USA 1999 (When Good Doctors Get Sued, 2001)
    •Estimated 25% of practicing physicians sued annually (When Good Doctors Get Sued, 2001)
    •Estimated 50-65% physicians sued at least once during their career (When Good Doctors Get Sued, 2001)
    •Estimated 10-20% of malpractice claims reach trial phase (When Good Doctors Get Sued, 2001)
    •Majority of malpractice cases involve misdiagnoses, diagnostic errors or delayed diagnosis (When Good Doctors Get Sued, 2001)
    •Medical malpractice payment reports by frequency:
    ◦86,057 physicians had 1 medical malpractice payment report against them in the US 1990-2003 (2003 Annual Report, National Practitioner Data Bank, US DHHS)
    ◦24,731 physicians had 2 medical malpractice payment reports against them in the US 1990-2003 (2003 Annual Report, National Practitioner Data Bank, US DHHS)
    ◦8,078 physicians had 3 medical malpractice payment reports against them in the US 1990-2003 (2003 Annual Report, National Practitioner Data Bank, US DHHS)
    ◦3,340 physicians had 4 medical malpractice payment reports against them in the US 1990-2003 (2003 Annual Report, National Practitioner Data Bank, US DHHS)
    ◦1,459 physicians had 5 medical malpractice payment reports against them in the US 1990-2003 (2003 Annual Report, National Practitioner Data Bank, US DHHS)
    ◦746 physicians had 6 medical malpractice payment reports against them in the US 1990-2003 (2003 Annual Report, National Practitioner Data Bank, US DHHS)
    ◦372 physicians had 7 medical malpractice payment reports against them in the US 1990-2003 (2003 Annual Report, National Practitioner Data Bank, US DHHS)
    ◦224 physicians had 8 medical malpractice payment reports against them in the US 1990-2003 (2003 Annual Report, National Practitioner Data Bank, US DHHS)
    ◦142 physicians had 9 medical malpractice payment reports against them in the US 1990-2003 (2003 Annual Report, National Practitioner Data Bank, US DHHS)
    ◦386 physicians had more than 10 medical malpractice payment reports against them in the US 1990-2003 (2003 Annual Report, National Practitioner Data Bank, US DHHS)
    Source

    Medical liability: By late career, 61% of doctors have been sued
    An AMA report on medical liability lawsuits illustrates the need for federal and state reforms, the Association says.

    By Carolyne Krupa, amednews staff. Posted Aug. 16, 2010.

    Six out of 10 physicians 55 and older have been sued, according to a new American Medical Association study.

    More at source

  2. #132
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I can think of two answers to your question:

    1) we might not believe, in the system you're proposing, that the result will be either better outcome or lower costs.
    2) we might not be willing to sacrifice the last shreds of our liberty for even more security.
    or:
    3) answer the question
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  3. #133
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Better check those stats before you go hanging an argument on them.



    Source
    The # of doctors sued is irrelevant. The # of doctors who are successfully sued is
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  4. #134
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    or:
    3) answer the question
    The answers were posted. Your ability to comprehend and accept those answers are your own issue.

  5. #135
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    The answers were posted. Your ability to comprehend and accept those answers are your own issue.
    You didn't answer the question
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  6. #136
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The # of doctors sued is irrelevant. The # of doctors who are successfully sued is
    Now, try reading the links. Btw, the number of doctors IS listed. And you seem to have missed the very first line:

    $4 billion dollars paid by insurers for malpractice in the USA 1999

  7. #137
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You didn't answer the question
    I'm not interested in childish "No, you didn't", "Yes I did" games. Many conservatives do not believe a single payer system of healthcare delivers either or both better outcomes or lower costs. So your transparent and weak attempt at a "when did you stop beating your wife" question was answered. You just can't accept the answers.

  8. #138
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Better check those stats before you go hanging an argument on them.



    Source
    Since the AMAs the problem, no serious person uses its statistics on this.

    Here read this and report back in, a sadder but wiser man.

    Malpractice a Tiny Percentage of Health Care Costs


    The CBO has reaffirmed its earlier findings that tort reform does not lower health care costs. In 2008, the agency found that “the effect [of tort limits] would be relatively small— less than 0.5 percent of total health care spending.”- Budget Options Volume 1 Health Care, Congressional Budget Office, December 2008.


    Would Tort Reform Lower Costs? - NYTimes.com

    [S]ome academics who study the system are less certain [about tort reform]. One critic is Tom Baker, a professor of law and health sciences at the University of Pennsylvania School of Law and author of “The Medical Malpractice Myth,” who believes that making the legal system less receptive to medical malpractice lawsuits will not significantly affect the costs of medical care. He spoke with the freelance writer Anne Underwood.

    Q.

    A lot of people seem to have taken up the cause of tort reform. Why isn’t it included in the health care legislation pending on Capitol Hill?

    A.

    Because it’s a red herring. It’s become a talking point for those who want to obstruct change. But [tort reform] doesn’t accomplish the goal of bringing down costs.

    Q.

    Why not?

    A.

    As the cost of health care goes up, the medical liability component of it has stayed fairly constant. That means it’s part of the medical price inflation system, but it’s not driving it. The number of claims is small relative to actual cases of medical malpractice
    .

    But wait, there's more!

    http://www.medmalfacts.com/facts-and-myths/
    Last edited by head of joaquin; 01-14-13 at 06:51 PM.

  9. #139
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by Londoner View Post
    Um... aren't the figures adjusted for population?
    It's listed as deaths per 100,000, which is completely useless. Frankly, I've seen more reliable statistics compiled by community college students. DABASSE is a politically driven organization, not a scientific one. Their goal is to push policy.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  10. #140
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    Re: We're Number......LAST

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Since the AMAs the problem, no serious person uses its statistics on this.

    Here read this and report back in, a sadder but wiser man.

    Malpractice a Tiny Percentage of Health Care Costs


    The CBO has reaffirmed its earlier findings that tort reform does not lower health care costs. In 2008, the agency found that “the effect [of tort limits] would be relatively small— less than 0.5 percent of total health care spending.”- Budget Options Volume 1 Health Care, Congressional Budget Office, December 2008.


    Would Tort Reform Lower Costs? - NYTimes.com

    But some academics who study the system are less certain. One critic is Tom Baker, a professor of law and health sciences at the University of Pennsylvania School of Law and author of “The Medical Malpractice Myth,” who believes that making the legal system less receptive to medical malpractice lawsuits will not significantly affect the costs of medical care. He spoke with the freelance writer Anne Underwood.

    Q.

    A lot of people seem to have taken up the cause of tort reform. Why isn’t it included in the health care legislation pending on Capitol Hill?

    A.

    Because it’s a red herring. It’s become a talking point for those who want to obstruct change. But [tort reform] doesn’t accomplish the goal of bringing down costs.

    Q.

    Why not?

    A.

    As the cost of health care goes up, the medical liability component of it has stayed fairly constant. That means it’s part of the medical price inflation system, but it’s not driving it. The number of claims is small relative to actual cases of medical malpractice
    .

    But wait, there's more!

    http://www.medmalfacts.com/facts-and-myths/
    Okay, you posted a bunch of unsourced nonsense about the amount of doctors affected by malpractice, I then showed you, with sources, what a mountain of claptrap it was. Now you think we won't notice your justifications are dealing, not with the amount of doctors affected by malpractice, but that limiting tort reform won't have much of an impact.

    Nice movement on the goal posts there. That aside, what the CBO and the Justice Law blog doesn't tell us is that limiting tort reform, even though it doesn't save much percentage wise, would still save us millions. That means it's not the only answer by itself, but in combination with other merasures it is significant.

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