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Thread: Lead exposure in children correlated to violent crime

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    Lead exposure in children correlated to violent crime

    Harris-Perry guest: Lead exposure in children correlated to violent crime | The Raw Story

    “The rise of emissions from leaded gasoline between the 1940s and the 1970s may have had a significant impact on the increase in crime rates from the 1960s through the late 1980s. When lead emissions went down, so did crime, with the appropriate time lag,” ...
    A similar correlation was found for teen pregnancy.
    “The higher the lead level [in the blood], the more likely to be arrested for violent crime,” ...
    here is the conclusion i was hoping would elicit comments:
    Harris-Perry voiced concerns over lawmakers and officials who could theoretically one day use that as evidence against people who haven’t even yet committed crimes.
    that does not make sense to me. if no crime has yet been committed, then there is no basis to collect 'evidence'

    however, i could see those afflicted with high lead levels using that documentation in the courts to mitigate the nature of their crimes
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    Re: Lead exposure in children correlated to violent crime

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    Harris-Perry guest: Lead exposure in children correlated to violent crime | The Raw Story



    here is the conclusion i was hoping would elicit comments:

    that does not make sense to me. if no crime has yet been committed, then there is no basis to collect 'evidence'

    however, i could see those afflicted with high lead levels using that documentation in the courts to mitigate the nature of their crimes

    This is very interesting JB! And from my previous career in drinking water, I am also aware of the dangers of lead in drinking water, and the fact that regulation of lead and copper did not begin until 1991 under the Lead and Copper Rule:

    "Lead and copper enter drinking water primarily through plumbing materials. Exposure to lead and copper may cause health problems ranging from stomach distress to brain damage. On June 7, 1991, EPA published a regulation to control lead and copper in drinking water. This regulation is known as the Lead and Copper Rule (also referred to as the LCR or 1991 Rule).

    The treatment technique for the rule requires systems to monitor drinking water at customer taps. If lead concentrations exceed an action level of 15 ppb or copper concentrations exceed an action level of 1.3 ppm in more than 10% of customer taps sampled, the system must undertake a number of additional actions to control corrosion. If the action level for lead is exceeded, the system must also inform the public about steps they should take to protect their health and may have to replace lead service lines under their control."

    Lead and Copper Rule | Lead & Copper Rule | US EPA
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Lead exposure in children correlated to violent crime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    This is very interesting JB! And from my previous career in drinking water, I am also aware of the dangers of lead in drinking water, and the fact that regulation of lead and copper did not begin until 1991 under the Lead and Copper Rule:

    "Lead and copper enter drinking water primarily through plumbing materials. Exposure to lead and copper may cause health problems ranging from stomach distress to brain damage. On June 7, 1991, EPA published a regulation to control lead and copper in drinking water. This regulation is known as the Lead and Copper Rule (also referred to as the LCR or 1991 Rule).

    The treatment technique for the rule requires systems to monitor drinking water at customer taps. If lead concentrations exceed an action level of 15 ppb or copper concentrations exceed an action level of 1.3 ppm in more than 10% of customer taps sampled, the system must undertake a number of additional actions to control corrosion. If the action level for lead is exceeded, the system must also inform the public about steps they should take to protect their health and may have to replace lead service lines under their control."

    Lead and Copper Rule | Lead & Copper Rule | US EPA
    i am vaguely aware of the adverse affects of lead, such that the lead leaching from the leaded joints/pipes in the water system caused the roman population to go into decline
    also recall that kids under six, living within 50 yards (iirc) of a major highway, were inclined to have an IQ 2% less than their less exposed counterparts when we were using leaded gasoline. that data may have helped motivate the change to unleaded fuel

    but i know nothing about the negative biological effects of copper. any insights for we lay people
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: Lead exposure in children correlated to violent crime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    This is very interesting JB! And from my previous career in drinking water, I am also aware of the dangers of lead in drinking water, and the fact that regulation of lead and copper did not begin until 1991 under the Lead and Copper Rule:

    "Lead and copper enter drinking water primarily through plumbing materials. Exposure to lead and copper may cause health problems ranging from stomach distress to brain damage. On June 7, 1991, EPA published a regulation to control lead and copper in drinking water. This regulation is known as the Lead and Copper Rule (also referred to as the LCR or 1991 Rule).

    The treatment technique for the rule requires systems to monitor drinking water at customer taps. If lead concentrations exceed an action level of 15 ppb or copper concentrations exceed an action level of 1.3 ppm in more than 10% of customer taps sampled, the system must undertake a number of additional actions to control corrosion. If the action level for lead is exceeded, the system must also inform the public about steps they should take to protect their health and may have to replace lead service lines under their control."

    Lead and Copper Rule | Lead & Copper Rule | US EPA
    Lead and cooper in water have been regulated since the 2nd incarnation of the Clean Water Act and RCRA. The Safe Drinkiing Water Act regulated it to some extent in the 90's. But it has been regulated for over 30 years.
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    Re: Lead exposure in children correlated to violent crime

    Lead in high doses causes neural damage and neurological disorder. Tremors, convulsive seizures and death. People with lead poisoning are fairly easily detected but as far as i know there is no effective treatment. Once the tremors become constant its too late. There are other side effects but these are the nasty ones.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

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    Re: Lead exposure in children correlated to violent crime

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    Harris-Perry guest: Lead exposure in children correlated to violent crime | The Raw Story



    here is the conclusion i was hoping would elicit comments:

    that does not make sense to me. if no crime has yet been committed, then there is no basis to collect 'evidence'

    however, i could see those afflicted with high lead levels using that documentation in the courts to mitigate the nature of their crimes
    I can buy it. Lead affects the brain and the chemical signals which regulate the body and if you mess with that I can see where the breakdown in "morality" would start to occur. Morality isn't the best word, but in a complex society wherein we agree on certain rules of the culture, things which affect the brain can affect the individuals ability to understand or execute those predetermined actions. OK.

    But as for the conclusion, that's right out. Perhaps those exposed to lead will have a higher percentage of folk committing violent crime; but do all kids exposed to lead go on to commit violent crime? No. It's just a higher percentage. And as such, there is nothing that dictates that any one given individual will commit violent crime because of lead exposure. You cannot infringe upon the rights and liberties of the individual without proof beyond a shadow of a doubt; and this does not meet the criteria.
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    Re: Lead exposure in children correlated to violent crime

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    Lead and cooper in water have been regulated since the 2nd incarnation of the Clean Water Act and RCRA. The Safe Drinkiing Water Act regulated it to some extent in the 90's. But it has been regulated for over 30 years.
    It was regulated further in 1991. See the link above.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Lead exposure in children correlated to violent crime

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    i am vaguely aware of the adverse affects of lead, such that the lead leaching from the leaded joints/pipes in the water system caused the roman population to go into decline
    also recall that kids under six, living within 50 yards (iirc) of a major highway, were inclined to have an IQ 2% less than their less exposed counterparts when we were using leaded gasoline. that data may have helped motivate the change to unleaded fuel

    but i know nothing about the negative biological effects of copper. any insights for we lay people
    Its not the copper JB, its the lead solder that was commonly used in copper piping that could allow the leaching of lead from the solder by corrosive water.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Lead exposure in children correlated to violent crime

    In the towns of Wallace and Kellogg Idaho there was a smelter for the silver mines that drenched the towns in lead to the point where they became a super fund cleanup site. Those towns had little or no crime back in those days so even though this is not exactly a controlled study it makes me think the study saying high lead causes crime is wrong. It could be that the high lead in blood levels the OP refers to is because high lead was a fact in living in the dirty air of the inner city areas which coincidentally have high crime rates.

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    Re: Lead exposure in children correlated to violent crime

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Its not the copper JB, its the lead solder that was commonly used in copper piping that could allow the leaching of lead from the solder by corrosive water.
    THANKS for that cat
    i can now return my copper clad pans out of hiding. they were having too much fun with the aluminum ones

    again, GREAT primer on this issue
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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