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Thread: Steve King Moves Forward on Bill to End Birthright Citizenship

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    Re: Steve King Moves Forward on Bill to End Birthright Citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    No, it does not clear it up, if by “it” you are referring to your self-contradiction.
    Sigh, I will explain it to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5
    This seems like a pretty common sense amendment, which is how it should be proposed, not as a simple law. You shouldnt be a citizen simply for being born on US soil. You should be born to a US citizen.
    I was speaking in present tense, not past tense. I do not beleive this should have been in the original constitution, everything else being equal. I propose we make this change now and apply to future births.

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    Re: Steve King Moves Forward on Bill to End Birthright Citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    If you made the change back then, and did nothing else. But that is not what I proposed.
    Your exact quote was
    You shouldnt be a citizen simply for being born on US soil. You should be born to a US citizen.
    You did not propose anything else. So if your proposal had been accepted back then, the consequence would have been that those of African descent would not have been US citizens. Remember the ONLY way Blacks at that time became citizens was through birthright citizenship, which you are stating should not be valid.

    If you have an actual argument instead of simple denial, please present it. "..that is not what I proposed" does not clarify what you are proposing. And it certainly appears that it is what you did propose as you offered no other path to citizenship.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: Steve King Moves Forward on Bill to End Birthright Citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    Not my assumptions, the natural, logical outcome of your position and of your ‘ideal’ about being law abiding.
    The ideal discussion is a differnt one. You have been discussing a hypothetical change to the constitution in 1787 about birthright, wheras the ideal discussion was a totally seperate topic about earning citizenship.

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    Re: Steve King Moves Forward on Bill to End Birthright Citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Your exact quote was You did not propose anything else. So if your proposal had been accepted back then, the consequence would have been that those of African descent would not have been US citizens. Remember the ONLY way Blacks at that time became citizens was through birthright citizenship, which you are stating should not be valid.

    If you have an actual argument instead of simple denial, please present it. "..that is not what I proposed" does not clarify what you are proposing. And it certainly appears that it is what you did propose as you offered no other path to citizenship.
    No, the exafct quote was:

    This seems like a pretty common sense amendment, which is how it should be proposed, not as a simple law. You shouldnt be a citizen simply for being born on US soil. You should be born to a US citizen.
    I was referring to Kings bill. And everytime I answer, deny, and clarifly your implications and assumptions, you tell me I dont mean what I say. Not really sure where we can go from here. If you have an actual argument about making Kings change in the present, please present it.

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    Re: Steve King Moves Forward on Bill to End Birthright Citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Sigh, I will explain it to you.

    I was speaking in present tense, not past tense. I do not beleive this should have been in the original constitution, everything else being equal. I propose we make this change now and apply to future births.
    The tense does not matter one iota for this:
    The real kicker, someone is born a ‘criminal’ without thought or intent or action other than just being. This constitutes an ideal world for you?
    Further, the principles of your stand are indeed at cross purposes with that past tense AND/OR the Constitution. How do you propose reconciliation of that, then?

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    Re: Steve King Moves Forward on Bill to End Birthright Citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    The tense does not matter one iota for this:


    Further, the principles of your stand are indeed at cross purposes with that past tense AND/OR the Constitution. How do you propose reconciliation of that, then?
    The change I proposed does not make being born in the US illegal, unless the parents are illegal, in which case, yes, that is ideal. A newborn would be deported with the mother.

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    Re: Steve King Moves Forward on Bill to End Birthright Citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    The ideal discussion is a differnt one. You have been discussing a hypothetical change to the constitution in 1787 about birthright, wheras the ideal discussion was a totally seperate topic about earning citizenship.
    How can be be separate in from you advocating seeking to change (AKA remove) a path to citizenship?

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    Re: Steve King Moves Forward on Bill to End Birthright Citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    How can be be separate in from you advocating seeking to change (AKA remove) a path to citizenship?
    Because i didnt suggest that. Someone else did. I only agreed with the op

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    Re: Steve King Moves Forward on Bill to End Birthright Citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    The change I proposed does not make being born in the US illegal, unless the parents are illegal, in which case, yes, that is ideal. A newborn would be deported with the mother.
    Well there-in lies one of the problems, you entirely misunderstood my question and answered a different one.

    Your actual answer to my question would be another, saddening problem. But I guess we already got to that place earlier in the thread, and you are just another data point that this is really about enacting a legally entrenched, hereditary class system. Which puts you at odds with a lot more than the 14th Amendment.
    Last edited by Dwight; 01-11-13 at 03:13 PM.

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    Re: Steve King Moves Forward on Bill to End Birthright Citizenship

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Because i didnt suggest that. Someone else did. I only agreed with the op/
    That is what the OP is all about. Removal of an existing path to citizenship, a position entirely entwined with your “ideal” comment as your “ideal” comment was meant to explain/justify/support the change.

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