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Thread: Report: White House Working Group Considers BROAD Gun-Control Measures.....

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    Re: Report: White House Working Group Considers BROAD Gun-Control Measures.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Many of these bills would require universal NICS record checks for all gun sales/transfers (registration?), which sounds quite logical until you think about that for a minute, or so. This is now required for all FFL dealers, but at a considerable cost (passed onto the gun buyer). In other words, everyone selling a gun would then either be required to be a FFL or use one to "certify" (register?) the sale/transfer of that gun. Just as a pawn shop, or auto dealer, is generally a lousy place to sell a used car, a FFL dealer is not going to (and currently does not) provide this "public service" for free. They demand to make about $30 to $50 simply for doing this paperwork, thus this "reasonable restriction" is, in fact, simply a huge tax on all "private" gun sales, but not going into the federal/state/local treasury, but largely into the pocket of a FFL dealer.
    This is exactly how I was looking for them to go after it with a Tax or taxes. Besides the common sense rule for those that are mentally handicapped. My question would be since the Public has been shown about the Corruption with L.E.'s and we know of those that are jerks in all fields, and or screw ups. What would make it legal for them to run around with a gun with their occupation and not have them psychologically tested every 3 years. All because they passed some testing 3 years prior. We have seen many that should not even be in such professions but are. Plus have access to a weapon.

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    Re: Report: White House Working Group Considers BROAD Gun-Control Measures.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    This is exactly how I was looking for them to go after it with a Tax or taxes. Besides the common sense rule for those that are mentally handicapped. My question would be since the Public has been shown about the Corruption with L.E.'s and we know of those that are jerks in all fields, and or screw ups. What would make it legal for them to run around with a gun with their occupation and not have them psychologically tested every 3 years. All because they passed some testing 3 years prior. We have seen many that should not even be in such professions but are. Plus have access to a weapon.
    Yep. These congress critters are [i]very[i/] unlikely to simply grant NICS access to the general public, allowing the average J. Q. Citizen to run background checks at the time of a private gun sale/transfer, it must go through "proper channels" and be accompanied by "user fees" (taxes?) and "registration" (gov't paperwork?).
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Report: White House Working Group Considers BROAD Gun-Control Measures.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Think, before you drink, even Koolaid. You do realize that 90% of gun crime is committed by repeat offenders, those arrested for or convicted of past criminal activity. Please also read my post #9 on this thread.

    Gun Control Restricts Those Least Likely to Commit Violent Crimes: Newsroom: The Independent Institute

    The Armed Criminal in America
    OK. Past criminal activity? The OP in this thread showed some important elements that I believe would place a tighter rein on "repeat offenders" going to gun shows or making personal gun transactions. If an actual background check is placed, the criminal is going to have to seek less traveled avenues to obtain a gun--any kind of gun.
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Report: White House Working Group Considers BROAD Gun-Control Measures.....

    Quote Originally Posted by RLN View Post
    OK. Past criminal activity? The OP in this thread showed some important elements that I believe would place a tighter rein on "repeat offenders" going to gun shows or making personal gun transactions. If an actual background check is placed, the criminal is going to have to seek less traveled avenues to obtain a gun--any kind of gun.
    The easiest way to buy illegal guns is to pose as a Mexican narcotraficante and buy all the guns you want from the BATF.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

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    Re: Report: White House Working Group Considers BROAD Gun-Control Measures.....

    Quote Originally Posted by RLN View Post
    OK. Past criminal activity? The OP in this thread showed some important elements that I believe would place a tighter rein on "repeat offenders" going to gun shows or making personal gun transactions. If an actual background check is placed, the criminal is going to have to seek less traveled avenues to obtain a gun--any kind of gun.
    Yep. That dreaded 2% of sales at "gun shows" to criminals will finally be a thing of the past. Personal gun transactions must still be limitted by NICS checks; just how do you propose that to be done? If even requiring a valid, state issued, photo ID is a discriminatory burden for the right to vote, what would you require for gun buyer ID (perhaps a utility bill and SAM's club card?)?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Report: White House Working Group Considers BROAD Gun-Control Measures.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Yep. That dreaded 2% of sales at "gun shows" to criminals will finally be a thing of the past.
    2%? Want to try for 40%? PolitiFact

    Under the law, federally licensed dealers must verify that a buyer has not been convicted of a serious crime or declared mentally incompetent or is blocked for any of about 10 reasons. Typically this is done online and takes less than a day.

    But only licensed dealers must do this. The law doesn’t apply to private sellers at gun shows, flea markets, or people who post firearms for sale on the Internet. If a private seller suspects that a buyer would be disqualified under federal rules, then they can’t go through with the sale. But there is no background check, and no one needs to file any paperwork.
    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Personal gun transactions must still be limitted by NICS checks; just how do you propose that to be done? If even requiring a valid, state issued, photo ID is a discriminatory burden for the right to vote, what would you require for gun buyer ID (perhaps a utility bill and SAM's club card?)?
    No. They don't even use your examples right now; all they do is give unlicensed dealers cash for guns and walk away.

    One of the things that could be done?

    Why not take legitimate use of your very own local, licensed gun dealer? For a reasonable fee, the gun dealer can get you the information you need to consummate the sale.

    But why is it that you are not bothered by people that can go in to a gun show and buy a gun with an unlicensed dealer with no background check?
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Report: White House Working Group Considers BROAD Gun-Control Measures.....

    Quote Originally Posted by RLN View Post
    2%? Want to try for 40%? PolitiFact



    No. They don't even use your examples right now; all they do is give unlicensed dealers cash for guns and walk away.

    One of the things that could be done?

    Why not take legitimate use of your very own local, licensed gun dealer? For a reasonable fee, the gun dealer can get you the information you need to consummate the sale.

    But why is it that you are not bothered by people that can go in to a gun show and buy a gun with an unlicensed dealer with no background check?
    First your PolitiFact source uses this "logic"...
    The best information on the informal gun market is based on a survey and is about 15 years old. Current regulations don’t allow direct tallies of sales of this sort. An undercover investigation found a great deal of internet activity, but it was sponsored by a mayor who seeks greater regulation. Groups opposed to greater regulation were asked to rebut the mayor’s assertion and did not respond.
    which is hardly "proof", simply admitting that they can not disprove the assertion, thus making it into a Politi"Fact".

    As I said in another post, paying a FFL dealer $30 to $50 to do the paperwork is insane, just as selling a used car via a pawn shop or through a car dealer is very likely to get a lower price for the seller and a higher price from the buyer. Middlemen, public or private, always want a cut.

    Why I am not bothered is that possessing or carrying guns is not illegal, except for convicted felons and the criminally insane. By refusing to keep either locked up, the argument is now turned into how to control the uncontollable; the violent criminal actions of convicted felons and criminally insane folks allowed to walk freely among us. My first suggestion is a serious look at sentencing for these violent felony offenses (and at the odds of a conviction, now at less than 33% of those even arrested).

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/fssc04.pdf
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Report: White House Working Group Considers BROAD Gun-Control Measures.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Would you support all L.E.s should have to have a Psychological evaluation to carry a firearm and hold a Job working for Government too?
    Don't LEOs already work for teh gubmint?
    Apparently, a psych eval is an SOP in some places as well.

    so,
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Report: White House Working Group Considers BROAD Gun-Control Measures.....

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    First your PolitiFact source uses this "logic"...

    which is hardly "proof", simply admitting that they can not disprove the assertion, thus making it into a Politi"Fact".

    As I said in another post, paying a FFL dealer $30 to $50 to do the paperwork is insane, just as selling a used car via a pawn shop or through a car dealer is very likely to get a lower price for the seller and a higher price from the buyer. Middlemen, public or private, always want a cut.

    Why I am not bothered is that possessing or carrying guns is not illegal, except for convicted felons and the criminally insane. By refusing to keep either locked up, the argument is now turned into how to control the uncontollable; the violent criminal actions of convicted felons and criminally insane folks allowed to walk freely among us. My first suggestion is a serious look at sentencing for these violent felony offenses (and at the odds of a conviction, now at less than 33% of those even arrested).

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/fssc04.pdf
    IMHO: Wishing this to go away is no answer. Legitimate, logical gun owners are nothing to be afraid of. I just do not like that a criminal or mentally unstable person can go in to a gun show and purchase a firearm from an unlicensed dealer with no background check.
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Report: White House Working Group Considers BROAD Gun-Control Measures.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    The White House is reportedly weighing gun-control measures that are broader and more comprehensive than bans on the sale of assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips.

    Measures under consideration by a working group led by Vice President Joe Biden include universal background checks for buyers, strengthened mental health examinations and stiffened penalties for carrying guns near schools or giving them to minors, sources told The Washington Post.

    One source told the newspaper that the White House may try to rally support from gun retailers including Wal-Mart to work around the National Rifle Association.

    The vice president said he would call on the law enforcement officials in the group to help in a legislative push against "everything from cop-killer bullets to type of weapons that should be off the street."

    White House press secretary Jay Carney last month also outlined concrete recommendations the president was expecting from the working group.

    Carney said that in addition to assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips bans, the White House would push a law that required background checks on all gun purchases, even those conducted at gun shows or over the Internet.

    Carney added that the president would also call on Congress to "take action to improve coordination between the federal government and state and local law enforcement to keep illegal guns out of the hands of criminals."

    Members of the 113th Congress introduced 10 bills on Thursday relating to gun violence, most of which came from Democrats seeking new restrictions on gun ownership.

    Read more: Report: White House working group considers broad gun-control measures - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room


    Looks Like the Democrats are going to push this issue Despite needing to focus on more important issuse. 10 bills have been introduced since Thursday. Those backing the 2nd Amendment and Weapons Rights. Will All need to come out in force. Pressuring lawmakers and even the press to report this down accurately as the Left will seek to distract over other issues while seeking to go after Weapons.
    Obama wont come for your guns, they said. Obama's not anti-gun, they said.

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