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Thread: Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

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    Re: Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    Is anyone else getting tired of the "unrelated provisions" the government is tacking on to its bills?

    Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It | CNS News
    If they were only given 3 minutes to read it, how can the public be expected to have a chance to talk to their representative. They can't. This isn't real representation.
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    Re: Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

    Legitimate source, please.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Legitimate source, please.
    Very lazy debate tactic you libs use. If you don't like or trust the source find your own or find a source you approve of that disputes the source you disapprove of.

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    Re: Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

    So you don't have a mainstream news source then, Sawyer?
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    They do have a lot of staffers who go through not only the bills but also the committee documents that are released with a bill who can then brief their Congressman.
    In 3 minutes?
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    Re: Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    In 3 minutes?
    No but these bills aren't things that are just created out of thin air, they go through a process and in the case of a bill like this one there was plenty of debate on it. Even if the final draft wasn't created until 3 minutes before the vote, assuming the source is correct, these staffers and Congressmen were with it throughout the process of creating it and therefore are not wholly ignorant of what's inside of it.

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    Re: Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

    The major details of the agreement were known well before the Senate voted on the package. Consistent with past practice, there were unrelated or preferential provisions embedded in the bill.

    IMO, the far bigger problem is the lack of strategic perspective that pervades Washington today. There is almost no effort to develop, much less pursue, a deliberate course aimed at achieving long-term goals. Instead, the Congress and President lurch from matter to matter often when no meaningful time is left to address those matters. When time is available, it is wasted. There is no rational basis to justify the lack of effort to develop a credible fiscal consolidation strategy during the nearly 16 months that was available from the time the debt ceiling was raised in August 2011/sequester was adopted. On account of a lack of purposeful design and guiding goals, it is little surprise that the policy solutions often fall far short of what could make a meaningful difference in addressing the nation's big challenges.

    S&P cited the growing problems with U.S. policy making in cutting the U.S. credit rating to AA+. Since that time, there remains no credible evidence that the capacity for U.S. leadership to address problems has improved. Meanwhile the long-term costs associated with those problems continue to mount and the time available for transition continues to shrink.

    The deficit hawks are right about the long-term. Their big problem is that they assume an immediate adverse reaction, forgetting that the U.S. has incredible debt intolerance that is not available to most other countries. Japan is another country with incredible debt intolerance. Hence, the U.S. has much more strategic flexibility to address its challenges before market reactions impose austerity.

    Where Washington's policy makers--both the President and Congress--are wrong is that they implicitly assume that each agreement at the brink of a crisis also expands the time available for meaningful fiscal consolidation. In an excessive short-term orientation, they assume that they can punt and that's exactly what they do. Rhetorical claims of commitment to fiscal discipline are not a substitute for action. Action, of course, or in the U.S. case, the lack thereof, is the measure by which policy makers' actual commitment to fiscal consolidation is judged. There is very little meaningful commitment at this time.

    Neither the Congress nor the President realize the context in which the U.S. must make its choices is changing and not entirely in a favorable direction. That context is eroding, albeit slowly, American strategic flexibility. First, economic development abroad means the pool of attractive alternative investment vehicles is expanding. Second, aging in some leading creditor nations, including but not limited to Japan (with its own high relative indebtedness) means that such countries will reduce future investments in Treasury securities and possibly reduce their holdings in order to have the liquidity to deal with their changing demographics. Third, a declining educational advantage for America's workforce vis-a-vis leading developed countries and also a number of developing ones, means that the nation's productivity and innovation (and long-term economic growth) will shrink relative to those countries absent investment to arrest that slowly-evolving disadvantage. Fourth, there are limits to how far a nation can monetize its debt prior to financial market risk perceptions changing. Markets are poor long-term discounters, as humans are inherently short-term oriented, hence the big rally following the fiscal cliff legislation, even as that legislation largely embraced a CBO alternative scenario that makes it more difficult for the U.S. to stabilize, much less reduce its debt relative to GDP. But when the markets eventually catch on, markets can overshoot in the opposite direction in a rush for the proverbial exits. QE amounts to partial monetization of the nation's debt and foreign creditor nations are beginning to discover that reality.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 01-04-13 at 11:46 AM.

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    Re: Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    Is anyone else getting tired of the "unrelated provisions" the government is tacking on to its bills?

    Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It | CNS News
    RIGHTWING FRAUD ALERT!

    The bill, titled the Family and Business Tax Cut Certainty Act of 2012, simply takes the previous Bush tax bill and subsequent related bills (already passed) and increases rates on taxpayers making over $400K, reinstating 2010 SSI rates, and then extending the rest with language like:

    Paragraph (1) of section 7652(f) is amended by striking "January 1, 2012" and inserting "January 1, 2014".

    CNS News. BWHAHHAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

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    Re: Senators Got 154-Page 'Fiscal Cliff' Bill 3 Minutes Before Voting on It

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I am tired of elected officials not reading bills they vote yes on. Unless they are using giant type in that 154 page bill then there is no way in hell any of clowns read the bill in its entirety and understood it. There should be criminal penalties for not reading these bills. To ensure that they had adequate time to read bill and the people had adequate time to read the bill there should be a 3 day minimum waiting period where the bills will be posted online for anyone to read and anytime a bill gets amended it gets held back and posted online for 3 days or more based on how many pages and how much of it was amended. These ****ed scum could have voted yes for another amnesty, Brady ban, a declaration of war against another country, ton of pork or some other ****.
    Personaly any bill passed should have been reviewed at least 60 days before final passage in its final form.
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