Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards At

[lpast]

There are republican politicians saying they agree with gun controls, there are democrat gun supporters who are saying they would now vote for more gun controls. Republican pundits are out there easing the news to gun supporters in my opinion that more gun control is coming.
I dont think its going to be a fight over more gun controls or not...its going to be how much more gun control will we get


Frank Luntz, a top Republican strategist and pollster, said Wednesday that the National Rifle Association's recent calls for armed guards to be stationed at every school in the wake of the Newtown, Conn. massacre suggested the organization isn't listening to public opinion on the issue.

"I don’t think the NRA is listening. I don’t think that they understand," Luntz continued. "Most Americans would protect the Second Amendment rights and yet agree with the idea that not every human being should own a gun, not every gun should be available at anytime, anywhere, for anyone. That at gun shows, you should not be able to buy something there and then without any kind of check whatsoever. What they're looking for is a common-sense approach that says that those who are law-abiding should continue to have the right to own a weapon, but that you don’t believe the right should be extended to everyone at every time for every type of weapon.”

Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards At Schools

 

[haymarket]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

This is most revealing

Among NRA members, 74 percent said they support background checks as a requirement for concealed carry permits. Recent polls of the broader American populace have showed higher levels of support for that and other gun control measures which the NRA has historically opposed.

It is obvious that the NRA has doubled down and even before they took that risk they were out of touch with their own membership on some issues and proposals. And what is especially frightening to the point of wondering what planet you do live on is that some who post here feel that the NRA is too moderate and does not take a hard enough line.

 

[Muddy Creek]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

That's true. MOST Americans support gun control. MOST Americans own guns. The NRA is the PR firm for gun manufacturers and corporations so they WANT more profits over peoples' lives.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

That's true. MOST Americans support gun control. MOST Americans own guns. The NRA is the PR firm for gun manufacturers and corporations so they WANT more profits over peoples' lives.

Actually it is less than MOST.

Gun Ownership and Use in America

How many Americans personally own guns, and what do they use them for? A recent Gallup Poll* shows that 3 in 10 Americans personally own a gun; most gun owners say they use their guns to protect themselves against crime, for hunting, and for target shooting. Gun ownership varies by different groups in the country, with men more likely to be gun owners than women, Southerners and Midwesterners more likely than Easterners or Westerners, Republicans more so than Democrats, and older rather than younger Americans.

Gun Ownership

The poll, conducted Oct. 13-16, finds that 4 in 10 Americans report they have a gun in their homes, including 30% who say they personally own a gun and 12% who say another member of their household owns it. These results show essentially no change since this question was last asked in 2000. At that time, 27% of Americans said they personally owned a gun and 14% said another household member owned one.

So clearly a MINORITY of Americans own guns. Not most.

 

[Fletch]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

There are republican politicians saying they agree with gun controls, there are democrat gun supporters who are saying they would now vote for more gun controls. Republican pundits are out there easing the news to gun supporters in my opinion that more gun control is coming.
I dont think its going to be a fight over more gun controls or not...its going to be how much more gun control will we get


Frank Luntz, a top Republican strategist and pollster, said Wednesday that the National Rifle Association's recent calls for armed guards to be stationed at every school in the wake of the Newtown, Conn. massacre suggested the organization isn't listening to public opinion on the issue.

"I don’t think the NRA is listening. I don’t think that they understand," Luntz continued. "Most Americans would protect the Second Amendment rights and yet agree with the idea that not every human being should own a gun, not every gun should be available at anytime, anywhere, for anyone. That at gun shows, you should not be able to buy something there and then without any kind of check whatsoever. What they're looking for is a common-sense approach that says that those who are law-abiding should continue to have the right to own a weapon, but that you don’t believe the right should be extended to everyone at every time for every type of weapon.”

Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards At Schools

You mean Connecticut had no restrictions on guns?

 

[Ray410]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

That's true. MOST Americans support gun control. MOST Americans own guns. The NRA is the PR firm for gun manufacturers and corporations so they WANT more profits over peoples' lives.

Wrong. Barack Obama is the PR firm for gun manufacturers and suppliers.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

That's true. MOST Americans support gun control. MOST Americans own guns. The NRA is the PR firm for gun manufacturers and corporations so they WANT more profits over peoples' lives.

:bs :liar2:lamo:lamo

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

Actually it is less than MOST.

Gun Ownership and Use in America




So clearly a MINORITY of Americans own guns. Not most.

I will keep that in mind the next time your party clamors for "gay rights" or "minority rights" etc

and many people who own guns don't make it a habit of saying so given the Dems' jihad against gun ownership and gun owners

 

[Goshin]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

This is most revealing



It is obvious that the NRA has doubled down and even before they took that risk they were out of touch with their own membership on some issues and proposals. And what is especially frightening to the point of wondering what planet you do live on is that some who post here feel that the NRA is too moderate and does not take a hard enough line.

Offhand I don't know of anywhere you can get a concealed carry permit without a background check, except in those state that do not require a permit at all.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

Offhand I don't know of anywhere you can get a concealed carry permit without a background check, except in those state that do not require a permit at all.

True enough and some of those states are offering licenses because states like Ohio won't offer reciprocity unless the out of staters have gone through the same requirements that we have here

which is why our permit is good in Indiana but their's is not here

 

[lpast]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

You mean Connecticut had no restrictions on guns?

You need to ask Frank Luntz that question

 

[haymarket]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

I will keep that in mind the next time your party clamors for "gay rights" or "minority rights" etc

and many people who own guns don't make it a habit of saying so given the Dems' jihad against gun ownership and gun owners

sorry but facts are what facts are.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

sorry but facts are what facts are.

the fact is-many gun owners claim not to own guns

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

sorry but facts are what facts are.

Opinion or random sample, anonymous polls are not "facts" they are surveys of whoever answers the phone. No verification or follow up is done. Poll me and see for yourself.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

Opinion or random sample, anonymous polls are not "facts" they are surveys of whoever answers the phone. No verification or follow up is done. Poll me and see for yourself.

i know its true because I know people who bought guns from a dealer I represent later told others they owned no guns

and I know when Cincinnati required people to register any "assault weapons" they wanted to keep legally, less than one hundred were registered yet I saw owners at the gun clubs I belong to using those rifles that they never registered

 

[tererun]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

Opinion or random sample, anonymous polls are not "facts" they are surveys of whoever answers the phone. No verification or follow up is done. Poll me and see for yourself.

So if the polls are wrong when a gun person says most people don't want firearm restrictions then we should not believe them? Just checking because if the polls are not accurate then we should have a vote on it and see what happens.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

So if the polls are wrong when a gun person says most people don't want firearm restrictions then we should not believe them? Just checking because if the polls are not accurate then we should have a vote on it and see what happens.

constitutional rights are not subject to a vote-especially when most of those who would support what you want are either stupid, emotobabbling or unlearned about the subject

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

So if the polls are wrong when a gun person says most people don't want firearm restrictions then we should not believe them? Just checking because if the polls are not accurate then we should have a vote on it and see what happens.

That is the idea behind our representative democracy. You tell your congress critters what you think and they just may opt to vote that way. One problem is that many are scarcely interested in what some individual voter may think, but very well aware of what the campaign cash providers say their "proper" opinion on a given matter should be. Another factor is that many run saying one thing but actually favor another (or simply don't care at all) and, for a generous enough "after office" employment offer, they may even decide to commit political suicide for that offer and vote "oddly".

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

constitutional rights are not subject to a vote-especially when most of those who would support what you want are either stupid, emotobabbling or unlearned about the subject

Unfortunately nearly anything can be called either "commerce" or "tax" related and magically become Constitutional, like PPACA. I would never have believed that education is an enumerated federal power (since education is not mentioned in the constitution at all), yet the ED is now the fastest growing, cabinet level, federal department.

 

[tererun]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

That is the idea behind our representative democracy. You tell your congress critters what you think and they just may opt to vote that way. One problem is that many are scarcely interested in what some individual voter may think, but very well aware of what the campaign cash providers say their "proper" opinion on a given matter should be. Another factor is that many run saying one thing but actually favor another (or simply don't care at all) and, for a generous enough "after office" employment offer, they may even decide to commit political suicide for that offer and vote "oddly".

yeah, the NRA does have this way of getting cash every time a bloody shooting comes around. gee, could it be they have a vested interest in school shootings?

 

[tererun]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

Unfortunately nearly anything can be called either "commerce" or "tax" related and magically become Constitutional, like PPACA. I would never have believed that education is an enumerated federal power (since education is not mentioned in the constitution at all), yet the ED is now the fastest growing, cabinet level, federal department.

Actually, it is possible to have a public vote on the issue, though damn near impossible to organize. I do blieve their is a legal way to get 2/3rds of the national population to ratify a new constitution. Not that you could ever get 2/3rds of the US to ever go in the same direction at once, but yes it is possible for that to be done. The idea that these so called rights are some sort of universal truth above the mandate of the government is downright silly. they are just a concept made up by men. oddly this supposed concept has changed over time considering under the original constitution women and blacks did not have these same rights. I always love how so called strict constitutionalists tend to ignore the fact that we have repeatedly amended and changed the constitution, and in it's original form it clearly was sexist and racist. hell, most people end up quoting the declaration of independence which was never a document that established the law of the land.

In the end whatever the government decides will be enacted. They have the military and police powers and the only other option is open revolt and I don't think many people in the US are going to give up their cushy lives to protect a right most don't even consider using. really, what you are asking is for them to give up their Ipads, Iphones, video games, snack foods, cushy homes, cars, ability to walk down the street without being arrested, and everything else they have for some revolution because you want a gun? Good luck if they ban guns on getting them to fight that one.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

yeah, the NRA does have this way of getting cash every time a bloody shooting comes around. gee, could it be they have a vested interest in school shootings?

More likely that the knee jerk reaction of their opposition to seek to ban evil guns, that immediately follows the "news" of this event, is the trigger (pun intended). BTW, where is the national 24/7 coverage/outrage over the 319 Chicago public school kids shot in the last year with their 24 fatalities? Obama's "hometown" (of late) is quite the gun violence model for the nation.

Chicago grapples with gun violence; murder toll soars - The Washington Post

Chicago Homicides Outnumber U.S. Troop Killings In Afghanistan

Chicago Death Toll Skyrockets – HUB BUB

In Newtown’s shadow, Chicago’s bleak gun toll goes on

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

Actually, it is possible to have a public vote on the issue, though damn near impossible to organize. I do blieve their is a legal way to get 2/3rds of the national population to ratify a new constitution. Not that you could ever get 2/3rds of the US to ever go in the same direction at once, but yes it is possible for that to be done. The idea that these so called rights are some sort of universal truth above the mandate of the government is downright silly. they are just a concept made up by men. oddly this supposed concept has changed over time considering under the original constitution women and blacks did not have these same rights. I always love how so called strict constitutionalists tend to ignore the fact that we have repeatedly amended and changed the constitution, and in it's original form it clearly was sexist and racist. hell, most people end up quoting the declaration of independence which was never a document that established the law of the land.

In the end whatever the government decides will be enacted. They have the military and police powers and the only other option is open revolt and I don't think many people in the US are going to give up their cushy lives to protect a right most don't even consider using. really, what you are asking is for them to give up their Ipads, Iphones, video games, snack foods, cushy homes, cars, ability to walk down the street without being arrested, and everything else they have for some revolution because you want a gun? Good luck if they ban guns on getting them to fight that one.

Thank you. That is indeed the proper way to go about a gun ban or massive infringement, to do it the direct and Constitutional way. If more federal power is desired then that is absolutely the correct method of getting it. No more court packing or dictionary searching to try to justify the unjustifiable, go for the gold!

 

[tererun]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

More likely that the knee jerk reaction of their opposition to seek to ban evil guns, that immediately follows the "news" of this event, is the trigger (pun intended). BTW, where is the national 24/7 coverage/outrage over the 319 Chicago public school kids shot in the last year with their 24 fatalities? Obama's "hometown" (of late) is quite the gun violence model for the nation.

Up until the latest incident the idea that obama was going to ban guns was just a sales gimmick. Even now obama has passed gun regs off on biden. I don't see obama being terribly serious bout any real reform when he is passing it off to joe. Even the news which is said to be forming a war on guns hasn't hit the main weaknesses in current regulations. there is very little to no mention of how it is illegal to own certain weapons, but you can easily find a way to buy them through legal channels. i am waiting to find out how this crazy guy in NY bought his guns. he owned them illegally as a convicted felon, but it would not have been hard for him to purchase those weapons without a background check from private dealers not required to do checks, or gun shows which don't have the time to do checks. The news and police have been tight lipped on where and how he purchased his guns, and I think that is because he got them through legal channels not required to check. Adam lanza should not have been allowed access to guns period, but his mother gave him access to them. Even his mental disorder which should have prohibited him from getting a gun might not have appeared on a background check.

it doesn't seem like many people want to close these actual loopholes. I went in the other day to wallmart to see about getting a gun with a guy who has an actual felony record. No problem in purchasing a "sports rifle." the guy cannot get a job at walmart because of his record, but he can buy their top of the line rifle there. What the hell does that say? BTW the sale was denied in the end because his credit card was denied. There is no real control. that is the way the NRA wants it.

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

the guy in NY was a convicted felon

and your rant about the NRA is just silly