Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 39

Thread: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards At

  1. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    The darkside of the moon
    Last Seen
    05-24-14 @ 05:56 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,905
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Unfortunately nearly anything can be called either "commerce" or "tax" related and magically become Constitutional, like PPACA. I would never have believed that education is an enumerated federal power (since education is not mentioned in the constitution at all), yet the ED is now the fastest growing, cabinet level, federal department.
    Actually, it is possible to have a public vote on the issue, though damn near impossible to organize. I do blieve their is a legal way to get 2/3rds of the national population to ratify a new constitution. Not that you could ever get 2/3rds of the US to ever go in the same direction at once, but yes it is possible for that to be done. The idea that these so called rights are some sort of universal truth above the mandate of the government is downright silly. they are just a concept made up by men. oddly this supposed concept has changed over time considering under the original constitution women and blacks did not have these same rights. I always love how so called strict constitutionalists tend to ignore the fact that we have repeatedly amended and changed the constitution, and in it's original form it clearly was sexist and racist. hell, most people end up quoting the declaration of independence which was never a document that established the law of the land.

    In the end whatever the government decides will be enacted. They have the military and police powers and the only other option is open revolt and I don't think many people in the US are going to give up their cushy lives to protect a right most don't even consider using. really, what you are asking is for them to give up their Ipads, Iphones, video games, snack foods, cushy homes, cars, ability to walk down the street without being arrested, and everything else they have for some revolution because you want a gun? Good luck if they ban guns on getting them to fight that one.

  2. #22
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,551

    Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    yeah, the NRA does have this way of getting cash every time a bloody shooting comes around. gee, could it be they have a vested interest in school shootings?
    More likely that the knee jerk reaction of their opposition to seek to ban evil guns, that immediately follows the "news" of this event, is the trigger (pun intended). BTW, where is the national 24/7 coverage/outrage over the 319 Chicago public school kids shot in the last year with their 24 fatalities? Obama's "hometown" (of late) is quite the gun violence model for the nation.

    Chicago grapples with gun violence; murder toll soars - The Washington Post

    Chicago Homicides Outnumber U.S. Troop Killings In Afghanistan

    Chicago Death Toll Skyrockets – HUB BUB

    In Newtown’s shadow, Chicago’s bleak gun toll goes on
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  3. #23
    Sometimes wrong

    ttwtt78640's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Uhland, Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:12 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    34,551

    Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by tererun View Post
    Actually, it is possible to have a public vote on the issue, though damn near impossible to organize. I do blieve their is a legal way to get 2/3rds of the national population to ratify a new constitution. Not that you could ever get 2/3rds of the US to ever go in the same direction at once, but yes it is possible for that to be done. The idea that these so called rights are some sort of universal truth above the mandate of the government is downright silly. they are just a concept made up by men. oddly this supposed concept has changed over time considering under the original constitution women and blacks did not have these same rights. I always love how so called strict constitutionalists tend to ignore the fact that we have repeatedly amended and changed the constitution, and in it's original form it clearly was sexist and racist. hell, most people end up quoting the declaration of independence which was never a document that established the law of the land.

    In the end whatever the government decides will be enacted. They have the military and police powers and the only other option is open revolt and I don't think many people in the US are going to give up their cushy lives to protect a right most don't even consider using. really, what you are asking is for them to give up their Ipads, Iphones, video games, snack foods, cushy homes, cars, ability to walk down the street without being arrested, and everything else they have for some revolution because you want a gun? Good luck if they ban guns on getting them to fight that one.
    Thank you. That is indeed the proper way to go about a gun ban or massive infringement, to do it the direct and Constitutional way. If more federal power is desired then that is absolutely the correct method of getting it. No more court packing or dictionary searching to try to justify the unjustifiable, go for the gold!
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    The darkside of the moon
    Last Seen
    05-24-14 @ 05:56 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,905
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    More likely that the knee jerk reaction of their opposition to seek to ban evil guns, that immediately follows the "news" of this event, is the trigger (pun intended). BTW, where is the national 24/7 coverage/outrage over the 319 Chicago public school kids shot in the last year with their 24 fatalities? Obama's "hometown" (of late) is quite the gun violence model for the nation.
    Up until the latest incident the idea that obama was going to ban guns was just a sales gimmick. Even now obama has passed gun regs off on biden. I don't see obama being terribly serious bout any real reform when he is passing it off to joe. Even the news which is said to be forming a war on guns hasn't hit the main weaknesses in current regulations. there is very little to no mention of how it is illegal to own certain weapons, but you can easily find a way to buy them through legal channels. i am waiting to find out how this crazy guy in NY bought his guns. he owned them illegally as a convicted felon, but it would not have been hard for him to purchase those weapons without a background check from private dealers not required to do checks, or gun shows which don't have the time to do checks. The news and police have been tight lipped on where and how he purchased his guns, and I think that is because he got them through legal channels not required to check. Adam lanza should not have been allowed access to guns period, but his mother gave him access to them. Even his mental disorder which should have prohibited him from getting a gun might not have appeared on a background check.

    it doesn't seem like many people want to close these actual loopholes. I went in the other day to wallmart to see about getting a gun with a guy who has an actual felony record. No problem in purchasing a "sports rifle." the guy cannot get a job at walmart because of his record, but he can buy their top of the line rifle there. What the hell does that say? BTW the sale was denied in the end because his credit card was denied. There is no real control. that is the way the NRA wants it.

  5. #25
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:08 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    180,574

    Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

    the guy in NY was a convicted felon

    and your rant about the NRA is just silly

  6. #26
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    The darkside of the moon
    Last Seen
    05-24-14 @ 05:56 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    4,905
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Thank you. That is indeed the proper way to go about a gun ban or massive infringement, to do it the direct and Constitutional way. If more federal power is desired then that is absolutely the correct method of getting it. No more court packing or dictionary searching to try to justify the unjustifiable, go for the gold!
    Actually, from what i understand to do that you would need to ratify a new constitution. A bit much of a workload just to go for some gun ban or regulations. Amending the present constitution is doable also, and much easier. I would personally be up for a brand new constitution to remove many of the present problems and tweak some of our present system. I think the head of the executive should be a small committee of 5-9 people. I think all elected officials should be allowed free web space, but that we should eliminate huge campaigning entirely. We never had the web way back during colonial days, and now we have an easy way to get information out cheaply. judges should not be affiliated with any party or party lines, and ther terms should be limited to 15 years max.

    buit i ramble way off topic here. Congress is able to pass the laws, the president is able to sign them into existence, and finally we have judicial review of those laws. That is a legitimate way to put a new law into the works. The courts would be where arguments about it being an infringement on the rights of the people would be made. It is good enough for anything else, and it should be good enough here. If you are afraid of not being heard join the club with the gays who have been trying to get DOMA reviewed by the supreme court who has refused to hear anything on it until recently. Congress and the president pass unconstitutional laws that violate rights all the time. We even had sexism and racism enshrined in the original constitution which we have removed. You are trying to put gun laws above every other type of law we have. let it go through the procedure and see what happens. it may not even get pass congress.

  7. #27
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:52 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,706

    Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    the fact is-many gun owners claim not to own guns
    those sort to things tend to balance out in polls like this as people lie the other way also. this poll was done by gallup and they have a year or two of experience in these matters.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #28
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 08:52 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,706

    Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Opinion or random sample, anonymous polls are not "facts" they are surveys of whoever answers the phone. No verification or follow up is done. Poll me and see for yourself.
    The results of a poll do represent facts. It is a fact that the poll produced a certain result. Do you know of a better count of gun owners in America? I would be happy to look at it.

    The Gallup organization has a little bit of experience in this matters .

    So if the numbers do not come out the way you want - you attack the process. I believe Romney and the Fox "experts" also recently did the same thing. How did that turn out for them?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #29
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    01-30-13 @ 07:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    1,036

    Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards


  10. #30
    Advisor Midwest Lib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Last Seen
    11-30-17 @ 05:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    512

    Re: Frank Luntz, GOP Pollster: The NRA Isn't Listening With Proposal For Armed Guards

    Oh, come on! Did you actually read the article?

    More than three-quarters of influential Iowa Republicans responding to the latest Patch Red Iowa Survey support having armed guards in schools.
    Of the 26 respondents, 46 percent strongly agreed and 31 percent somewhat agreed that armed guards should be in schools, while 11.5 percent somewhat disagreed and 11.5 percent strongly disagreed.
    National polling seems to favor more gun control. The Pew Research Center found that more Americans now believe that controlling gun ownership is a bigger priority than protecting the right to own firearms and a CBS News poll found more people now believe stricter gun control is needed. The USA Today/Gallup Poll found most favor stricter gun laws, but most oppose banning assault weapons
    As much as some people may like to paint all left leaning people as "totally against guns" I feel like most just want a decent amount of control involved with those who own them. I, myself, am a primarily democratic voter who owns more guns than fingers I have on one hand. I just hate it when someone tries to cherry pick an article that doesn't even REALLY support the argument they are trying to make! (ridiculously small sample group being the most obvious problem)

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •