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Thread: Utah 6th-grader in custody after bringing gun to school

  1. #121
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    Re: Utah 6th-grader in custody after bringing gun to school

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Some important statistics to keep in mind:
    A little over half of all suicides in the United States use firearms.
    More than 90% of attempts with firearms are fatal, far outweighing the success rate of other methods (such as drug overdose or cutting, which are about 3% successful) (source).
    Suicides account for over half of all shootings.
    Although most gun owners reportedly keep a firearm in their home for "protection" or "self defense," 83 percent of gun-related deaths in these homes are the result of a suicide, often by someone other than the gun owner. The majority of suicides are from an impulsive decision. Seventy percent of suicide attempters decide to kill themselves on an impulse - less than an hour before their attempt. The ready availability of guns makes for a deadly combination.
    Ninety percent of people who survive a suicide attempt do not go on to die by suicide.
    [And this one is for the parents out there. Do you want your child dead? Keep a gun available.
    75% of youth suicides by gun used a parent's firearm

    http://newtrajectory.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-problem-of-guns-and-suicide.html"]
    So basically the argument is that we should restrict the availability of guns so people can't as easily make a decision with their own life. Yeah, that argument is horrible. The argument of impulse suicide while interesting doesn't really change that you are making an argument meant to solely make them make a decision you want when its their life we are dealing with.

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    Re: Utah 6th-grader in custody after bringing gun to school

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Why do you ask how he got it? If it isn't wrong, what difference does it make?
    Do you know how he got it?



    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    In my opinion, a responsible gun owner would never leave a potentially loaded weapon where a child could lay hands on it.
    Exactly. In your opinion.
    Well I know some 8 and 9 year olds that would find and retrieve that gun of yours no matter where you put it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Not only was he wrong-headed to think he could actually protect anyone with the gun,
    His thinking was not wrongheaded.
    It was noble.


    When I made my initial reply, I didn't know that the gun wasn't loaded. (And now I see that, although the gun wasn't loaded, he had ammunition in his backpack.) In my opinion, anyone who thinks it's just fine for parents to leave loaded guns or unloaded ones with ammunition accessible to young children is guilty of child endangerment. If not to their own child? Then to playmates.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Eleven-year-olds cannot be trusted to have access to loaded guns without adult supervision. Yes, "some" may be perfectly trustworthy.
    Contradictory statements.

    But yes, some 11 year olds can be. At one time they weren't the exception as they would be now.



    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Had he killed a little kid? That dead kid's parents would own his parents' home, cars, money and anything else of value they had as "payment" for their dead kid and their failure to secure their weapons from a child.

    I fail to see how anyone of sound mind can argue this point.
    I fail to see anything of merit in your argument.

    If a parent keeps a firearm in the nightstand by their bed and the kid violates the sanctity of their bedroom and obtains it. I could not in good conscience hold the parents responsible for the actions of the kid.

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    Re: Utah 6th-grader in custody after bringing gun to school

    He has seen hundreds of thousnads of killings watching videos, movies and TV why be alarmed?
    It's nothing more than X's and O's.

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    Re: Utah 6th-grader in custody after bringing gun to school

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Do you know how he got it?




    Exactly. In your opinion.
    Well I know some 8 and 9 year olds that would find and retrieve that gun of yours no matter where you put it.

    His thinking was not wrongheaded.
    It was noble.


    When I made my initial reply, I didn't know that the gun wasn't loaded. (And now I see that, although the gun wasn't loaded, he had ammunition in his backpack.) In my opinion, anyone who thinks it's just fine for parents to leave loaded guns or unloaded ones with ammunition accessible to young children is guilty of child endangerment. If not to their own child? Then to playmates.

    Contradictory statements.

    But yes, some 11 year olds can be. At one time they weren't the exception as they would be now.



    I fail to see anything of merit in your argument.

    If a parent keeps a firearm in the nightstand by their bed and the kid violates the sanctity of their bedroom and obtains it. I could not in good conscience hold the parents responsible for the actions of the kid.
    Sanctity of a bedroom? interesting idea.....
    A gun should not be in a nightstand drawer...it should be hidden from easy view. We have 2 houses, split our year based on weather.
    In one house, if I need the gun right now, I step out of bed and knock the nightstand over and there it is, attached to the underside of the nightstand with velcro. It can't be seen unless the nightstand is knocked over. In the other house, there is a bifold closet door within a few feet of my side of the bed. I can reach inside, above the door frame, and retrieve the gun. It can't be easily seen, either, as the closet is less than 2 feet deep.
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    Re: Utah 6th-grader in custody after bringing gun to school

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Do you know how he got it?

    Exactly. In your opinion.
    Well I know some 8 and 9 year olds that would find and retrieve that gun of yours no matter where you put it.

    His thinking was not wrongheaded.
    It was noble.

    When I made my initial reply, I didn't know that the gun wasn't loaded. (And now I see that, although the gun wasn't loaded, he had ammunition in his backpack.) In my opinion, anyone who thinks it's just fine for parents to leave loaded guns or unloaded ones with ammunition accessible to young children is guilty of child endangerment. If not to their own child? Then to playmates.

    Contradictory statements.

    But yes, some 11 year olds can be. At one time they weren't the exception as they would be now.

    I fail to see anything of merit in your argument.

    If a parent keeps a firearm in the nightstand by their bed and the kid violates the sanctity of their bedroom and obtains it. I could not in good conscience hold the parents responsible for the actions of the kid.
    Noble, really. Noble to threaten other children with it. I have to stop myself from being infracted here!

    You and I will continue to disagree. I won't change your mind, but I have certainly cemented my own thinking. And, your position reminds me that some gun owners are completely out of touch with the reality that guns are dangerous weapons in the hands of children.

    Edit: Oh! And my children are not allowed to play at your house.
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    Re: Utah 6th-grader in custody after bringing gun to school

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Sanctity of a bedroom? interesting idea.....
    A gun should not be in a nightstand drawer...
    Bs! It should be in a place that is easily accessible, as time may be essential.

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    Re: Utah 6th-grader in custody after bringing gun to school

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Bs! It should be in a place that is easily accessible, as time may be essential.
    doesn't that also make it easily accessible to children, as may have been the circumstance in instant case
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    Re: Utah 6th-grader in custody after bringing gun to school

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    That he had a right to do it and it was ok because it would make his school and friends safer. NOT.
    The kid is applying an adult concept when it is inappropriate for a kid. He should know the difference.

    It's the powerranger concept... should those teenagers start shooting and killing bad guys even though it's the right thing to do and they have the power to do so? No... but they do it anyway, even though it's inappropriate for a random group of teenagers to do such things.

    It's not appropriate for children to do this, because of obvious lack of maturity/skill/discipline.

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    Re: Utah 6th-grader in custody after bringing gun to school

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    How about gun safety in a violent video game. XD

    It would have to hidden somehow to keep the fun factor, but I would laugh at the sight of it.
    I think i play a swat game yeeeeeeears ago where if you accidentally put anyone on your team into line of sight with the barrel you were penalized. :p Even if you didnt fire on them. If you kept pointing it at them you lost the mission. It was a crappy game though and I cant remember the name of it.
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    Re: Utah 6th-grader in custody after bringing gun to school

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Noble, really.
    The thought to protect others is noble. Do you deny that?


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Noble to threaten other children with it. I have to stop myself from being infracted here!
    Go for it. Get yourself infracted. I don't mind.
    We have no idea if he actually did, or if he did, how he relayed it. He may have been making an innocent but factual statement,
    No reason to get bent out of shape about it. Yet! Because as you have been so keen to observe he is after all just a child.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    You and I will continue to disagree. I won't change your mind, but I have certainly cemented my own thinking. And, your position reminds me that some gun owners are completely out of touch with the reality that guns are dangerous weapons in the hands of children.
    Guns can be dangerous in anybodies hands. But some eleven year olds are more than capable of handling them properly. Better than some adults even.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Edit: Oh! And my children are not allowed to play at your house.
    Gee, just as we were getting along spectacularly, you want to go and make me feel insulted.

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