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Thread: Sandy Hook: Beyond gun control, disease control

  1. #11
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    Re: Sandy Hook: Beyond gun control, disease control

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    Ah, I see. The real purpose of this thread reveals itself, and spares no time in doing so: a diversionary attempt to move the discussion away from gun control. "We need more mental health services! But we will take precisely no steps towards actually funding them!"

    So shallow. And, God, you're so easy.
    I have been calling for mental health changes before we knew the body count. Taxing gun powder and crying about Reagan instead of addressing the issue was your doing. Have anything to say about the OP since you have not addressed it? I do oppose gun control and I do oppose letting psychos run the streets. How do we pay for it? Eliminate the earned income credit? End federally funded flood insurance and crop insurance? Require everybody to pay some income taxes even if it a dollar. Raise tariffs. Add a sin tax to everybody's paycheck for the sin of not caring about the mentally ill. Now that is out of the way, how do we provide these services that are being paid for by all the money I have just saved the world?

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    Re: Sandy Hook: Beyond gun control, disease control

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    And again: the idea of a gunpowder tax originated in Britain. In the 1890s. In the Party that at the time was associated with low-taxes.

    Though, of course, that said, in a modern context, the Democrats did win the last election. Quite handily, too, might I add.

    Uneducated mobs put Stalin, Hilter and Mao into power too.

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    Re: Sandy Hook: Beyond gun control, disease control

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    I have been calling for mental health changes before we knew the body count. Taxing gun powder and crying about Reagan instead of addressing the issue was your doing.
    It was "my doing" because it's a pragmatic idea to fund more mental health services than we presently have. I "cried about Reagan" because, at one point, we had one of the greatest mental healthcare systems in the world. But Reagan, coupled with 'countercultural' lunatics like Thomas Szasz, saw to it that that system was destroyed in the 1970s and 1980s.

    Have anything to say about the OP since you have not addressed it?
    Why, I thought I made my agreement quite clear. And I thought I provided a solution for funding expanded health care services that do not require expanding Obamacare at the same time.

    I do oppose gun control
    As do I.

    End federally funded flood insurance and crop insurance? Require everybody to pay some income taxes even if it a dollar.
    No, thanks. I'd rather not be part of your hairebrained Republican tax-raising schemes. A gunpowder tax is sufficient in itself. Raise tariffs.

    The rest of your post is, quite literally, nothing more than a grunt of morality. "You must pay for the sin of not caring about the mentally ill!"

    Again, no thanks. A small tax on gunpowder is quite sufficient to cover any overhead costs for an expanded mental health care programme. We do not need to raise income taxes. Or payroll taxes. Or raise taxes 'subtly' by abolishing the EITC.
    I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad-redeemer (your Divine Democrat — your Hebrew Madman) and write over his thorn-torn brow, “The true prince of Evil — the king of the Slaves!”
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    Re: Sandy Hook: Beyond gun control, disease control

    Who would make this determination?

    Lets say that in 5th grade, you bullied another child(ren)? Do you go in the database and lose your rights for the rest of your life? What if you get addicted to pain pills at age 33 and seek help? What if you write a crazy letter to the editor? What if you vote for Obama? Who is in charge of these evaluations? Right now we have thousands of people who can't fly because these idiots have put Robert Jackson on the "no-fly" list and you're not THAT Robert Johnson?

    I can only imagine......


    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    I think it is time for a mental health database. Anyone who has shown any sign of or who has sought treatment for mental health issues with a violence component should be put in the database with criminals and prohibited from buying any guns. The mentally ill often receive publicly funded healthcare--the diagnosis codes need to go in the database.

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    Re: Sandy Hook: Beyond gun control, disease control

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    Here's a solution for you: implement a five cent tax on gunpowder to restore the mental health services Ronald Reagan gutted in the 1980s.

    But that's pragmatic, and doesn't lend itself well to moralistic shrieking.

    EDIT: Of course, this has also been proposed by the fellows at the Democratic Underground, so you may rest assured that fault will be found with the proposers of this policy, rather than the policy itself.
    Punitive taxes on people who don't do anything wrong is pretty disgusting.
    The vast majority of people who use bullets aren't breaking the law.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Sandy Hook: Beyond gun control, disease control

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Uneducated mobs put Stalin, Hilter and Mao into power too.
    You just can't keep yourself from engaging in irrelevant hyperbole, can you? I suppose you think it makes you look smart and historically informed.
    I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad-redeemer (your Divine Democrat — your Hebrew Madman) and write over his thorn-torn brow, “The true prince of Evil — the king of the Slaves!”
    - Ragnar Redbeard, Might Is Right, 1890

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    Re: Sandy Hook: Beyond gun control, disease control

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Punitive taxes on people who don't do anything wrong is pretty disgusting.
    The vast majority of people who use bullets aren't breaking the law.
    Okay, then we'll hike income taxes to fund it, Harry. Will that satisfy you? Or we can expand Obamacare coverage to include comprehensive mental health coverage. If you so much as suspect you've got Asperger's, why, we'll usher you right into your friendly neighborhood psychiatric clinic.

    Do you understand the principle of 'compromise', Harry? A five cent tax on gunpowder, metered by the ounce, is much cheaper than either increasing income taxes or expanding Obamacare. If we're to have a mental health system in this nation, let's fund it in a way that impacts the fewest people and costs those who it does impact the least amount of money.

    Or we can continue banging our heads on our copies of The Road To Serfdom and pretend that it's intellectually stimulating.
    I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad-redeemer (your Divine Democrat — your Hebrew Madman) and write over his thorn-torn brow, “The true prince of Evil — the king of the Slaves!”
    - Ragnar Redbeard, Might Is Right, 1890

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    Re: Sandy Hook: Beyond gun control, disease control

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Who would make this determination?

    Lets say that in 5th grade, you bullied another child(ren)? Do you go in the database and lose your rights for the rest of your life? What if you get addicted to pain pills at age 33 and seek help? What if you write a crazy letter to the editor? What if you vote for Obama? Who is in charge of these evaluations? Right now we have thousands of people who can't fly because these idiots have put Robert Jackson on the "no-fly" list and you're not THAT Robert Johnson?

    I can only imagine......
    Well, would you rather we have more piles of dead people? My answer is yes--if you have threatened or carried out physical violence on another person or yourself and have a known diagnosis if mental handicap then you should be in the database. It isn't like autistic kids and kids with cerebral palsy really need guns to hunt with or anything.

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    Re: Sandy Hook: Beyond gun control, disease control

    Quote Originally Posted by Einzige View Post
    Okay, then we'll hike income taxes to fund it, Harry. Will that satisfy you? Or we can expand Obamacare coverage to include comprehensive mental health coverage. If you so much as suspect you've got Asperger's, why, we'll usher you right into your friendly neighborhood psychiatric clinic.

    Do you understand the principle of 'compromise', Harry? A five cent tax on gunpowder, metered by the ounce, is much cheaper than either increasing income taxes or expanding Obamacare. If we're to have a mental health system in this nation, let's fund it in a way that impacts the fewest people and costs those who it does impact the least amount of money.

    Or we can continue banging our heads on our copies of The Road To Serfdom and pretend that it's intellectually stimulating.
    I'm completely fine with income taxes.
    Punitive taxes for mental health services assumes that gun owners are responsible for poor mental health.
    That's not a compromise, it's punitive.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Sandy Hook: Beyond gun control, disease control

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I'm completely fine with income taxes.
    Punitive taxes for mental health services assumes that gun owners are responsible for poor mental health.
    That's not a compromise, it's punitive.
    No, it assumes that gun owners are responsible for gun crime. Which they are.

    Incidentally, I never fail to be amazed that "libertarians", so-called, can be brought around to whatever slop the Republican Party is peddling, even if it means income tax hikes.
    I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad-redeemer (your Divine Democrat — your Hebrew Madman) and write over his thorn-torn brow, “The true prince of Evil — the king of the Slaves!”
    - Ragnar Redbeard, Might Is Right, 1890

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