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Thread: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains why

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    Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    None of what you said makes any sense.
    It makes perfect sense. You accuse me of being a racist because I pointed out the fact that blacks have been the only people to hold a city hostage to violent race-based riots in recent memory. You then claim that "we", being all whites, are collectively responsible for the violent acts committed by individual people 40 years ago because we are white. I never said that all blacks were responsible for the Cincinnati Riots. You are the only one speaking in collective terms here and attempting to advance a racist point of view. Or are you now backpedaling on your "we" accusation?
    Last edited by Napoleon; 12-23-12 at 03:26 PM.

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    Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    It makes perfect sense. You accuse me of being a racist because I pointed out the fact that blacks have been the only people to hold a city hostage to violent race-based riots in recent memory. You then claim that "we", being all whites, are collectively responsible for the violent acts committed by individual people 40 years ago because we are white. I never said that all blacks were responsible for the Cincinnati Riots. You are the only one speaking in collective terms here and attempting to advance a racist point of view. Or are you now backpedaling on your "we" accusation?
    Because it's not true. In fact, I showed it. There are riots all of the world done by people who aren't black, including many riots by white people - in this country and in others.

    I don't know if you are having trouble speaking/reading English, or if you are just trying to confuse semantics because you have no ground to stand on.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Because it's not true. In fact, I showed it. There are riots all of the world done by people who aren't black, including many riots by white people - in this country and in others.
    I have yet to see you provide an example of anyone else holding an American city hostage to violent race-based riots in recent memory. Unless of course "recent" to you is 1971. Are "we" still responsible? You think that every black person is assigned a racist white man at birth to wait in the wings for an opportunity to sabotage their life? Or just that its justifiable for them to believe it?
    Last edited by Napoleon; 12-23-12 at 03:44 PM.

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    Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    I have yet to see you provide an example of anyone else holding an American city hostage to violent race-based riots in recent memory. Unless of course "recent" to you is 1971. Are "we" still responsible? You think that every black person is assigned a racist white man at birth to wait in the wings for an opportunity to sabotage their life? Or just that its justifiable for them to believe it?
    If 1971 isn't recent, then I don't consider 2001 recent either. Sorry, so when have black people done it in recent memory? 2001 is too old. Sorry.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    If 1971 isn't recent...
    Do you honestly consider 1971 to be recent? Just admit it; you have nothing. There haven't been any violent racially-based riots in American cities by white people, hispanic people, jewish people, asian people, etc. for 40 plus years.

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    Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Do you honestly consider 1971 to be recent? Just admit it; you have nothing. There haven't been any violent racially-based riots in American cities by white people, hispanic people, jewish people, asian people, etc. for 40 plus years.
    Dude, really? You are passing judgment over a race of people and whether or not they are the only ones who are willing to hold a city hostage during a violent riot, and you only want to look over the past 20 years.

    It's you that has nothing.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Dude, really? You are passing judgment over a race of people..
    No, YOU are passing judgement on an entire race of people and encouraging another race to do the same. "We" are not responsible for something that happened 40 or 200 years ago. I'm not the one claiming that an entire race is responsible for the actions of individuals. You don't believe that all blacks should be judged on the basis of the behavior of the barbarian thugs looting our cities, and rightly so, but why then do you blame the entire white race for the actions of individuals 40 plus years ago and encourage blacks to do the same?

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    Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    No, YOU are passing judgement on an entire race of people and encouraging another race to do the same. "We" are not responsible for something that happened 40 or 200 years ago. I'm not the one claiming that an entire race is responsible for the actions of individuals. You don't believe that all blacks should be judged on the basis of the behavior of the barbarian thugs looting our cities, and rightly so, but why then do you blame the entire white race for the actions of individuals 40 plus years ago and encourage blacks to do the same?
    I can't figure out your argument. I'm not blaming anyone for anything. Here is your "claim":

    "I'm not aware of any other group (blacks) which has held an American city hostage to rioting, arson, looting, and violence in recent memory."

    So I don't know exactly what you are talking about. I have just shown that there have been plenty of other groups.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman
    not when it predates their lives.
    Events have consequences, which become the causes of yet other events in their turn.

    Did you experience the American Revolutionary War? Does the American Revolutionary War have an effect on your life?

    I'm pretty sure it's no to the former, and yes to the latter. And if that is so, especially given the weight of the history under discussion, why wouldn't it have a profound effect on our current situation?

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    Re: 'As a black person it's always racial': Django Unchained star Jamie Foxx explains

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    So... A black baby born into this world is already born resentful towards whites because of something that has happened in history that has not affected them? Even though they don't know the difference between races yet?
    No, of course not. Why do you think that's what I've said?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    Quit jabbering about "Oh Woes R DUH EFFEKZ UF DUH HIZTORY" and make SENSE!
    1) I have not written the disquoted string of letters anywhere in my posts. I don't know what they mean.

    2) I suspect I don't make sense to you because you aren't taking any time to reflect on the ideas presented.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    What effects of history? At what point in a black person's life is it that they obtain awareness of their inherent resentment towards white people, which is an excusable trait?
    I suspect it happens after a few instances of racist behavior get directed their way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    You are just repeating the same thing without making any effort to explain why history should matter to the 80s and 90s born black people who have had full and equal opportunity in the country since their birth. You just keep repeating.... "Oh Woez is duh history dat be holdin' da black menzzes down"
    Again, I haven't written anything like the disquoted string of letters. I am repeating the same thing because you're not engaging the point. We should start with a general point about history: namely, that things which happen in the past matter to how the present is shaped. That seems like such a clear and obvious point, I don't know how it could possibly be simpler. Someone who doesn't believe that is both foolish and foolhardy.

    Once the general point is acknowledged (and I really don't see how anyone who was being reasonable could fail to do so), we can look at specific cases. In this specific case, the past history is so horrific and so weighty, it seems hard to understand how it could not continue to have effects today.

    And again, we come full circle enough for me to ask... What reason does a 18 year old black male have to resent white people that he should be excused for his resentment?







    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    Socioeconomic status is what matters. An upper class black kid is going to have the same opportunities as an upper class white kid.
    Still untrue, and also irrelevant. See that hiring study I linked (if it was one of the ones that didn't work, I'll link it a different way. Alternately, you can just google "Implicit bias race hiring" or something like that, and you'll find plenty to keep you busy.

    But anyway, there are proportionately more upper middle class white people than black people (i.e. a higher percentage of white people, out of the total population of white people, are upper middle class than the fraction of black people, out of the total population of black people).

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    BTW: Your links suck... half of them don't work
    All of them work for me except two; I'm not sure what happened on those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    the others talk about "disease rates are higher for afric.." OF ****ING COURSE THEY ARE... WHITE PEOPLE CAN'T GET SICKLE CELL.
    The studies linked adjust for that, looking at health outcomes over a range of diseases.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    Sorry, I call bull****. "Social capital" is something an INDIVIDUAL builds.
    If you're defining terms that way, OK: African Americans lack <insert whatever term you like here, that means the same as social capital except as acquired by communities>. Until you settle on the term you'd like to use, I'll just call it "X". Put X back into my original argument, and proceed from there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    You show up to a job interview dressed well, articulate, honest, and qualified for the job, and it doesn't matter if you are black or white.
    Two points:

    1) Yes, it still does matter. That's been demonstrated over and over.

    2) Just as important: all of those are learned normative behaviors. When you have a population that never learns them, and doesn't even learn that they're supposed to learn them, I have a hard time blaming individuals in that population for not being more successful. It would be like throwing someone into a biology lab without any training, and expecting them to understand automated sampling protocols--if they weren't even aware there are such things, they couldn't very well be responsible for their lack of knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    So I, who had nothing to do with slavery or discrimination........ I am supposed to ACCEPT having people of another race hateful and resentful and distrustful towards me for some **** I didn't do to them, who didn't experience it.... and you expect the racial "gap" to be bridged? GTFO.
    Actually, no, I do not expect it to be bridged. I think slavery will turn out to be one of those things that, once you do it, it can never be undone.

    But you may as well accept it; if you were actually in the shoes of most African Americans, I think you'd probably develop quite a resentment as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    Until blacks can grow up and move on, it ain't going to happen. Im not kissing someone's ass because of some **** I didn't do, and I am sick of walking on eggshells. So call me a racist... cause I didn't have **** to do with it.
    I don't know if you're a racist or not. But you seem not to grasp the notion of cause and effect, which is rather strange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    And yet that is an alternate reality to the one being faced by blacks born in the current generation of mid 20s and early 30 year olds.......... Nobody is paying **** back. Last time I checked, my black friends don't have a ****ing check they have to send off to the "Cracker Slave Massa" that sets them back every month. So your analogy can suck a nut.
    Well, you have to apply the principle of analogy evenly. Just as the situation is a proxy for reality, each individual element is a proxy for an element of reality. I was not claiming that African Americans write actual checks to white Americans; the checks in the analogy are a proxy for the continuing unfair effects that slavery and Jim Crow have produced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    You see.... Apparently you think you are talking to just another privileged northern hand flopping white dude whose parents had plenty of "opportunity" to pass on to them.

    No, I grew up moving from one "trailer" to the next...
    I made no assumptions about who you are. I'm not sure why I should; arguments are what they are, regardless of who argues them. I play the board, not the man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    So you see..... Claiming I had some kind of special leg up in life because I am white is just ****ing stupid.
    Indeed. But I have not made that claim. I would acknowledge that it would be possible to get that idea from the analogy about the court decision. But that was not my intent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    Any poor black person who stayed out of trouble (that is THEIR responsibility to do, regardless of where they life) and stayed in school (THEIR RESPONSIBILITY) could have done the same thing.
    Again, probably false. Are police departments across the country hiring that many people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine
    If someone lacked the ability to make good decisions, they can't blame that **** on their race.... because I know plenty of broke ass crackers in North Carolina who made ****ty decisions too.
    Depending on what you mean by this, you're committing one of two serious fallacies. You're either affirming the consequent, or begging the question. If you elaborate on what you mean, I'll tell you which.

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