I'm sure it's probably been said multiple times in this thread, but if any group of people goes through what African Americans have gone through, for as long as they have, I suspect it will (justly and rightfully) take several CENTURIES before they're able to no longer pay attention to issues of race. If white europeans had been forcibly kidnapped (removing them from their families) and sold as slaves in, say, east asia, whipped, tortured, put to work, and killed when they could no longer work the cotton fields for a few hundred years, I suspect quite a few white people living in China and Japan would (in such a hypothetical case) be a little PISSED OFF. And if that were followed up with several decades of illegal and immoral discrimination and de facto slavery, I imagine racism would be an indelible and inextricable part of the consciousness of white people in East Asia for a very, very long time. Frankly, my descriptions don't remotely touch all the elements of the African American experience, or the depth of the severity of those elements. Some people who maybe can relate, in this country, are American Indians and Jews who have some direct relation to the holocaust...Originally Posted by American
My grandfather served 30 years in the military and hated Japanese because of Pearl Harbor. Obviously, the past is past and we're on good terms with Japan now. In fact, I have more respect for your average Japanese citizen than your average American. I studied four years of Japanese as an undergrad, plus studied physics and taught math in Japan. Their culture puts ours to shame on some key values like respect and responsibility. Some results include Tokyo being perhaps the safest major city in the world and overall the healthiest nation in the world.
One disappointment I have as a mathematician is the inability of the majority to recognize patterns or analyze cause/effect. Relating this to the OP, the more people dwell on the past and hold grudges, the less they will achieve. In particular, blacks dwell on the slavery many years ago and that's what's impeding their progress. Instead of turning a hatred for past suffering into excuses to want pity and reimbursement for pain and suffering, it should be redirected to motivate working for success.
With regards to the food served, please read the quotes in my signature. Stereotypes are developed based on statistics, not necessarily explicitly counting but perhaps general observations. Food preference is unique to individuals. However, there are many factors, such as ethnicity or wealth, that can be conditioned on since the probability distribution of food preferences can differ noticeably when you partition with respect to these. Take some millionaires and college kids for example. You'll see an expected difference in the preferences between wine or beer and between cheese samples or cheese pizza. Obviously, if your goal is to satisfy your guests then you look to maximize the probability if doing so. Perhaps people should be appreciative rather than offended by someone making an effort to satisfying them.
"With me everything turns into mathematics."
"It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
"It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes
If you hate me because of something someone else did to one of your ancestors....don't be shocked if I don't like you very much either.
Why? You seem to have misunderstood my point. If, as you seem to point out below, there are historical patterns of cause and effect, it seems obvious that getting over hisotry is the last thing anyone should or (more to the point) could do. I don't think African Americans look to history and create a cause out of it in the way that, say, a Pictish reconstructionist would decide to hate people from Italy. I think African Americans are aware of history, of course. But history in this case is an accumulation of causes that are not yet done working themselves out, and won't be for some time. To expect otherwise is to misunderstand history.Originally Posted by Mathematician
This doesn't seem to be an applicable analogy.Originally Posted by Mathematician
One disappointment I have as a philosopher is the inability of many people to maintain consistency in their positions...Originally Posted by Mathematician
Again, I think it's got very little to do with holding a grudge. It's got a lot more to do with causes that are historical, and have yet to be worked out. Reference to history is the standard method of finding those causes--the mistake your analysis makes is to confuse the method of finding causes for the causes themselves.Originally Posted by Mathematician
Nonsense. Subconscious bias (also known as "Unconscious bias" or "Implicit bias") studies establish that racism is alive and well among most people in America. Sociological studies have consistently indicated the same.Originally Posted by Mathematician
It's strange that you make this kind of remark, and then go on to say what you say below. See my comments further down.Originally Posted by Mathematician
So, you seem to acknowledge that there are properties, which may not perhaps be truly predicated of all individuals in a sample, but will generally be truly predicated in aggregate. How, exactly, you hold that position consistently with your other position (given a good general knowledge of the issues involved) is not clear to me.Originally Posted by Mathematician
Your food example is an example of how cause leads to effect. It's surely not the case that the wealthy individuals you mention look back on the history of wealthy people and rage against any mention of beer because Annheuser Busch (or some such) held them down as slaves, keeping them from their rightfully-earned wine. No, wealthy individuals can afford nice wine, and have time to develop a discriminating palate. That's one reason they tend to prefer nicer wines. It's also surely not the case that wealthy individuals look back into history and drink wine so as to conform with the customs of their ancestors. They don't hold any grudge against the days when their ancestors drank beer like the rest of us. Rather, they drink wine because their ancestors do or did, and this is what they are taught and what they know. Changing a preference for nice wines into one for cheap beer would take a monumental effort, precisely because of the weight of historical causes and the nature of human beings generally.
You think people in west Philadelphia ghetto neighborhoods know anything about some "historical causes they have yet to be worked out"???
I think this is just a round-about way to excuse racial resentment by blacks.
Please, do tell Mr. Philosopher..... what are these "historical causes that are yet to be worked out" ???
I have no thesis about whether they do or not. Why would knowledge of a cause be necessary to that cause acting upon a person? For example, few college students today know anything about the decisions made under the Nixon administration which set up student loan programs and cut grants. But those causes have a tremendous effect on their lives, and the lives of most people in this country.Originally Posted by Caine
I think anyone who takes a reasonable and unbiased view of history would see that resentment is quite justified and therefore excusable.Originally Posted by Caine
I believe I've already named them, but I will again: centuries of being kidnapped and sold into slavery in nearly unfathomably cruel conditions, followed by decades of legally sanctioned racism. All of that sounds incredibly sterile when described that way; you have to give consideration to what it would be like for a human being to experience that sort of treatment, and for generations of human beings in a population to experience such treatment.Originally Posted by Caine
Blacks and other minorities that use 200 year old excuses will continue to fail in society today.