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Thread: SCOTUS: Scalia on the defensive over gay rights

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I think he is trying to make an appeal to moral intuition. He is guessing that we know that it is right to have "moral feelings" about something like murder.

    He is correct in that assumption - we all know that murder is wrong. The question is, do we have a right to make that judgement about murderers?

    Intuitively, most people would say "yes."

    What gives us that right?

    This is Scalia's point, I believe, and it's an interesting one. I don't have the answer. Whatever gives us that right may or may not be transferrable to other questions, such as homosexuality.
    While yes he i refering here to choices we make with our morals, he is also comparing what he believes is the immoraity of homosexuality to the immorality of murder.

    He is making the assumption here that loving someone of the same gender is of a similar nature to taking the life of another human being. To me that is a reprehensible thought. I myself have many family members who are homosexual and are among the best people I have had the opportunity to know.
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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Well, it is a reality to say that a Bible believing Christian or Jew, would condemn homosexuality. Would they also condemn murder? I think so.

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by hfd View Post
    Well, it is a reality to say that a Bible believing Christian or Jew, would condemn homosexuality. Would they also condemn murder? I think so.
    And racists will condemn blacks and call that a moral feeling.


    Point is we don't embody moral feelings into law if they are merely prejudicial and hate-filled. There has to be a social purpose of protecting society and its members.

    Murder is both morally odious AND it harms others. So we have laws against murder. It isn't based on a desire to discriminate against murderers.

    Not so with the "moral feelings" of the religious right or racists against gay or minorities. They just want to discriminate. There is no logic to allowing them to do so in our jurisprudence and it ISN'T like murder.

    See the problem with the bloviating Scalia's "argument"?

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Of course you have the right to a moral opinion against murder, it harms others.

    Homosexuality doesn't. Is he really trying to say that I have a right to feel that eating cheese is immoral and I can legislate against it? With that standard you could apply morality to anything and everything to any end.

    The conduct of homosexuals only harms Scalia's insecurites at the most, the actions of consenting adults in the bedroom is none of his business, much less something he has the right to be morally offended by.

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    I'm more disturbed by his apparent belief that logical fallacies form the foundations of legitimate legal opinions. Talk about houses built on sand.

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Personally, I think the scum of the court are the justices that won't stand up for human rights by banning elective abortions that so clearly violate a human's most sacred right, the right to life.

    I also agree with Scalia. Why can't people have feelings against homosexuality or also believe that it is immoral just like they believe murder is immoral?
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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    This asshole is a plague on the court, he should have never been appointed.



    SCOTUS: Scalia on the defensive over gay rights - First Read
    I don't think he's really comparing the act of homosexuality with the act of murder. He's comparing the ability to have moral feelings on the two. And in my opinion he is correct that we can have moral feelings on both of them.

    That said, if he is using this argument to come to the conclusion that we can have laws barring homosexuality because we have laws barring murder I disagree with his conclusion. Laws against murder provide social order, while laws against homosexuality really don't. We don't legislate against everything we find immoral. I don't know if that's what he was saying though because the source was short and unclear.
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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    I wish you would refrain from the insults, they aren't really needed, but you make some great points.

    First, should these "moral feelings" be embodied in to law? Dunno. Good question.

    Second, you distinguish murderers as a group that can be discriminated against because they hurt people. This is interesting. I would say, though, that we have laws against many things that don't hurt others. It would be illegal for me to smear myself in green jello and walk naked through the subway, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    No, he was arguing that it's OK to have moral feelings embodied in the law, arguing that since we do it with murder, why can't we do it with sexual orientation.

    The reason is obvious to anybody with a thought in his head. "Moral feelings" should never be embodied into law if the sole purpose is bias and discrimination against a group of people who aren't harming any body. Murders, in contrast, harm people, so our moral feelings coincide with a positive case for protecting society and its members.

    See the difference now? Basically, Scalia is saying, if people have moral feelings about black folk being inferior, then it's OK to pass laws that discriminate againt them.

    That's how intellectuall bankrupt the man is.

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    And racists will condemn blacks and call that a moral feeling.


    Point is we don't embody moral feelings into law if they are merely prejudicial and hate-filled.
    Not sure that relates to Biblical admonishments. See the problem with your response?

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    He isn't doing that, though. He never says that homosexuality is similar to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by falcata View Post
    While yes he i refering here to choices we make with our morals, he is also comparing what he believes is the immoraity of homosexuality to the immorality of murder.

    He is making the assumption here that loving someone of the same gender is of a similar nature to taking the life of another human being. To me that is a reprehensible thought. I myself have many family members who are homosexual and are among the best people I have had the opportunity to know.

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