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Thread: SCOTUS: Scalia on the defensive over gay rights

  1. #201
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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    If Scalia is an orginalist then what do moral feelings have to do with the constitution or statutory law? Is the court in the habit of ruling on feelings? No, I think Scalia meant exactly what he said, that he thinks homosexuality is immoral and he deliberately made the comparison to murder to make his point known. Whether he rules on his feeeeeelings or the intent of the constitution remains to be seen.
    It does not. You are poorly informed. He is going to vote to overturn Vaughn in Perry. In Windsor, he is going to have to do some intellectual gymnastics to support DOMA. I am guessing he will figure it out as he lacks any principle. The man is scum.

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    You are not allowed to say that he is a bigot for his beliefs, without making yourself a bigot, since you are intolerant of his opinion. Its that whole "point a finger a someone, three more point at you" thing.
    Fail. He stated quite clearly that he does not support state action to prohibit the posters repugnant and immoral views.

  3. #203
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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by BayToBay View Post
    It does not. You are poorly informed. He is going to vote to overturn Vaughn in Perry. In Windsor, he is going to have to do some intellectual gymnastics to support DOMA. I am guessing he will figure it out as he lacks any principle. The man is scum.
    MmmmmK, whatever.

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Either way, I have no problem with what Scalia said. People should be allowed to hold and voice their opinion on homosexuality whether they think it's fine or if they believe it is immoral.
    I have no problem with people voicing their own opinions about anything. The problem comes when they put their "opinions" into action. The reasons given to keep gay marriage illegal are pretty weak.

    The favorite reason some give is "Think of the children". Well, gay marriage being illegal does not mean gay couples can't adopt or have children of their own through invetro. That one is lame.

    Then there is the "Well if the state makes it legal, that means the state says it is moral". No, watching pornography while rubbing green jello all over your body in the comfort of your own home is LEGAL, however, to some it STILL isn't moral.

    Legal does not equate to moral.

    The simple facts are that the reasons given to keep gay marriage illegal are weak and it is showing.

  5. #205
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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by BayToBay View Post
    It does not. You are poorly informed. He is going to vote to overturn Vaughn in Perry. In Windsor, he is going to have to do some intellectual gymnastics to support DOMA. I am guessing he will figure it out as he lacks any principle. The man is scum.
    Not really on the DOMA thing. Liberals tend to over construe Sect 1 of the 14th Amendment in comparison to strict constructionists. I am not sure why all this Scalia speculation is going on other than to just bash conservatives by proxy--he is not going to support gay marriage and won't be a swing vote.

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    We all define harm and interest differently, there are just many things most people will universally agree on like theft and murder.

    Either way, I have no problem with what Scalia said. People should be allowed to hold and voice their opinion on homosexuality whether they think it's fine or if they believe it is immoral.

    No, we don't all define harm differently. The only cogent definition in this context is harm to third parties. Murderers harm other people. Gay marriage does not. Putative indirect "harm" to marriage or to morals doesn't count since it's subjective and in dispute and pretty much the result of prejudice, unsupported by any facts.

    If you think otherwise, let's see you make the case that they do. But of course you can't. And indeed that's why so many anti-gay laws have been struck down. The arguments for them have been shown to be totally nonfactual or irrational.

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    I contend they are not similar. Every contract requires the free-will consent of all affected parties.

    2 homosexuals have agreed to have an intimate relationship. All parties are notified and in agreement. This is ethical and moral.

    Adultery involves 3 parties. One party is defrauded when the other 2 parties engage in conduct that is concealed and for which consent has not been obtained.

    If a married couple agreed to an open relationship, then it would not be adultery. Therefore, there is no comparison. As for your personal opinion, I can respect it but completely disagree. What if I thought that gun ownership was immoral? Would that make it immoral? I don't think so.
    So, what the state should keep a record of everyone that has agreed to an ope marriage so that they know who to arrest? Can you imagine the sort of entrapment that would take place?

    The state has no interest in protecting the feelings of citizens. The interest in marriage is about property.

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You are mistaking the selling point and reasonings with the origins. The origin of laws on all killing is based on morality. No matter if its dealing with if the death occurred at the barrel of a gun or the will of the woman(late term). In both cases it comes down to morality first and practicality and benefits second.
    If it were about morality then vigilante justice would be commonplace. It is about preserving social order.

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    I contend they are not similar. Every contract requires the free-will consent of all affected parties.

    2 homosexuals have agreed to have an intimate relationship. All parties are notified and in agreement. This is ethical and moral.

    Adultery involves 3 parties. One party is defrauded when the other 2 parties engage in conduct that is concealed and for which consent has not been obtained.

    If a married couple agreed to an open relationship, then it would not be adultery. Therefore, there is no comparison. As for your personal opinion, I can respect it but completely disagree. What if I thought that gun ownership was immoral? Would that make it immoral? I don't think so.
    Also, at best, your argument concerning contracts would justify some form of tort not criminal laws.

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Not really on the DOMA thing. Liberals tend to over construe Sect 1 of the 14th Amendment in comparison to strict constructionists. I am not sure why all this Scalia speculation is going on other than to just bash conservatives by proxy--he is not going to support gay marriage and won't be a swing vote.
    Have you read his opinion in Lawrence? He is a slug and has recently implied that he wishes to overturn the ruling. I bash him because he is morally repugnant and without principle.

    The difficulty on DOMA will surround his pretense of supporting states rights. The law is clearly unconstitutional without any consideration of the 14th.

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