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Thread: SCOTUS: Scalia on the defensive over gay rights

  1. #191
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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    I contend they are not similar. Every contract requires the free-will consent of all affected parties.

    2 homosexuals have agreed to have an intimate relationship. All parties are notified and in agreement. This is ethical and moral.

    Adultery involves 3 parties. One party is defrauded when the other 2 parties engage in conduct that is concealed and for which consent has not been obtained.

    If a married couple agreed to an open relationship, then it would not be adultery. Therefore, there is no comparison. As for your personal opinion, I can respect it but completely disagree. What if I thought that gun ownership was immoral? Would that make it immoral? I don't think so.







    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    Arguing that one form of immorality is now widely-tolerated in society is no argument in support of a similar form of immorality.

  2. #192
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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    To paraphrase Einstein, evil doesn't happen so much because of people doing evil, but because of otherwise good people who tolerate and allow it.
    That's why we must get rid of Scalia and we must prevent bigotted people from imposing their biases on public policy by discriminating against people based on gender and sexual orientation.

    It's evil to discriminate against people who aren't harming others by their conduct. It harms both the minority that is attacked and the rest of society, which doesn't benefit from the full participation all members.

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Every person's morality is his own. The issue is making law, which is a public concern. And personal morality is no basis for law, ....
    ALL law is created from some sense of morality. Since most people do not believe there is anything objective about morals that would mean what do you think?

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    ALL law is created from some sense of morality. Since most people do not believe there is anything objective about morals that would mean what do you think?
    This is simply false and misses the point.

    The rule against perpetuities in wills isn't based on morality; it's just a practical consideration.

    More to the point, for private morality to become public policy (i.e., law) there must be more than moral feelings -- there must be an interest to protect, or harm to be averted.

    We don't pass laws against murderers because we don't like them (though we don't) but because we want to prevent and punish violence.

    For those who want to discriminate against gays to fulfill their own (insecure) private morality, my answer is: grow up. Homosexuality causes no harm to third parties and discriminating against gays harms them and harms society by not allowing people to fully participate and contribute in our society.

    And no, morality isn't objective. It makes no sense to claim that.

  5. #195
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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    False: most criminal laws are to prevent or punish conduct that harms other people financially or physically. Most civil laws are to protect property and transactions. Again, while we may attach moral feelings to some or all of these law, that isn't enough. There must be actual harm or an interest to protect.

    Moral feelings that people shouldn't eat meat is scarcely a reason to enforce vegetarianism.
    We all define harm and interest differently, there are just many things most people will universally agree on like theft and murder.

    Either way, I have no problem with what Scalia said. People should be allowed to hold and voice their opinion on homosexuality whether they think it's fine or if they believe it is immoral.
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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    ALL law is created from some sense of morality. Since most people do not believe there is anything objective about morals that would mean what do you think?
    All morals may be subjective, but some are more subjective than others. The basis for laws focus on actions that cause demonstrable financial or physical harm. Trying to go further than that in criminalizing actions is dangerous to everyone in society. Bob Blaylock for instance is a Mormon and he would find himself receiving similar persecution as homosexuals if the mainstream religious groups were allowed to put their morality into law. The rational interest of self preservation is an excellent motivation for preventing such laws, as nearly every individual does something with which the majority does not approve and could easily find themselves on the wrong end of the chopping block.

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    We all define harm and interest differently, there are just many things most people will universally agree on like theft and murder.

    Either way, I have no problem with what Scalia said. People should be allowed to hold and voice their opinion on homosexuality whether they think it's fine or if they believe it is immoral.
    Thinking something is "immoral" is one thing. Comparing it to murder is quite another.

    Especially when what you are comparing to murder is what most intelligent an open minded adults view as nothing more than a loving relationship between two people.

    There are gay children out there struggling to come to grips with who they are. What message does it send when a Supreme Court Justice that might be making a ruling an SSM makes such an asinine and ignorant statement?

    Kids are dying because they can't handle the stress of not being accepted for who they are.

    If you're sexually attracted to white Swedish girls, but not dark skinned black women, does that mean that being attracted to dark skinned black women is as immoral as murder?

    The stupidity of the comment is overwhelming considering who he is and the position he's going to be in soon.

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    We all define harm and interest differently, there are just many things most people will universally agree on like theft and murder.

    Either way, I have no problem with what Scalia said. People should be allowed to hold and voice their opinion on homosexuality whether they think it's fine or if they believe it is immoral.
    Do you think it would appropriate for Scalia to comment on his personal view about protestant immorality before making ruling regarding an evangelical church?

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    This is simply false and misses the point.

    The rule against perpetuities in wills isn't based on morality; it's just a practical consideration.
    You are mistaking the selling point and reasonings with the origins. The origin of laws on all killing is based on morality. No matter if its dealing with if the death occurred at the barrel of a gun or the will of the woman(late term). In both cases it comes down to morality first and practicality and benefits second.

    More to the point, for private morality to become public policy (i.e., law) there must be more than moral feelings -- there must be an interest to protect, or harm to be averted.
    A simply look at the laws on the books will tell you comes down to nothing but the will of the politicians and their own sense of morality and power.

    And no, morality isn't objective. It makes no sense to claim that.
    False. There is a indeed a underlining objective side to morality and a simply look at history will show you that at least to some degree all societies follow it to a degree.

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    Re: Justice Scalia compares homosexuality to murder.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    We have justices on the Supreme Court for their learned opinions. We agree with many. We disagree with many. His is one opinion. He is entitled to it. I wouldn't agree with him if he said gay marriage was unconstitutional, if that is what he thought But we don't even know that. There's a reason we don't appoint 30-year-olds to SCOTUS, my friend.

    So, tell me. What is it that he said that makes him a target for homosexuals?? If it's from this, it's much ado about absolutely nothing:
    His opinion in Lawrence v Texas. He does not simply believe they should be barred from marriage. He believes the state should be able to put them in jail.

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