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Thread: Howard Dean: "The Truth Is Everybody Needs To Pay More Taxes, Not Just The Rich"

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    Re: Howard Dean: "The Truth Is Everybody Needs To Pay More Taxes, Not Just The Rich"

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Yes, I do. You should try it some time.
    Id rather stick with common sense and reality you should try THAT sometime

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    Re: Howard Dean: "The Truth Is Everybody Needs To Pay More Taxes, Not Just The Rich"

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Id rather stick with common sense and reality you should try THAT sometime
    I'm applying common sense to the situation. There is simply no way to tax our way out of this, even 100% confiscation won't work. We need to reduce welfare by such a large amount that is will be effectively an elimination of these programs, so might as well go all the way. I suppose we could responsibly continue to pay an ineffectual pittance to social security, but nothing more than that.

    And let me explain this to you very clearly, that is what is going to happen either way. Either we eliminate these programs and the economy will recover or we continue these programs and the dollar will decline in value in order for the government to fund its nominal welfare obligations. These programs are going away, either actually or effectively.

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    Re: Howard Dean: "The Truth Is Everybody Needs To Pay More Taxes, Not Just The Rich"

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I'm applying common sense to the situation. There is simply no way to tax our way out of this, even 100% confiscation won't work. We need to reduce welfare by such a large amount that is will be effectively an elimination of these programs, so might as well go all the way. I suppose we could responsibly continue to pay an ineffectual pittance to social security, but nothing more than that.

    And let me explain this to you very clearly, that is what is going to happen either way. Either we eliminate these programs and the economy will recover or we continue these programs and the dollar will decline in value in order for the government to fund its nominal welfare obligations. These programs are going away, either actually or effectively.
    Short and sweet...I nor even Howard Dean called to just tax our way out of it...he said EVERYONE should pay more taxs to get out the debt and yes there needs to be some spending cuts...Like close loopholes which are the BIGGEST spending and subisidies to corporations that pocket MY money as profit...like big oil...big pharma and big farms....then we can go from there...but no one said not to cut spending

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    Re: Howard Dean: "The Truth Is Everybody Needs To Pay More Taxes, Not Just The Rich"

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Short and sweet...I nor even Howard Dean called to just tax our way out of it...he said EVERYONE should pay more taxs to get out the debt and yes there needs to be some spending cuts...Like close loopholes which are the BIGGEST spending and subisidies to corporations that pocket MY money as profit...like big oil...big pharma and big farms....then we can go from there...but no one said not to cut spending
    I'm not just saying cut spending, I am saying completely eliminate social security, medicare/medicaid, and slash defense to skeleton crew status. That's the only way out. Anything else is pissing in the wind, including any tax suggestion up to and including 100% confiscation.

    If 100% confiscation could get us out of this mess, I would advocate just that. But the only sensible solution is elimination of the Big Three government expenses. Have you seen the numbers?? It is staggering. The welfare payouts and defense spending dwarf anything else out there. Increasing revenue is great (I'm being ideologically neutral here, just talking in terms of solutions), but it won't work.

    We are junkies. A junkie can try to increase he revenue, maybe he sends out job applications or searches for scrap metal or panhandles or something. That is analogous to taxes. What the junkie needs is to get off the junk. The junk is analogous to medicare, medicaid, and defense overspending. Until the junkie is clean, there is no way that revenue increases can even make a dent.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 12-08-12 at 01:12 PM.

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    Re: Howard Dean: "The Truth Is Everybody Needs To Pay More Taxes, Not Just The Rich"

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I can almost believe that, were it not for the cuts to defense spending that would happen automatically. I don't think they would do that intentionally. If the sparring was for affect, why abandon the guise by recently voting 98 - 0 on passing $650 billion in military spending authorization.
    Because if Republicans don't, they catch flack for being "unpatriotic." And if Democrats don't, it starts another debate and they don't want to distract from the current class warfare rhetoric. So, feed the monkey while it's still on your back, right before you shoot it in the face.
    "Political speech and writing are largely the defense of the indefensible. . . . Thus political language has to consist largely of euphemism, question-begging and sheer cloudy vagueness."
    ~Orwell, Politics and the English Language

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    Re: Howard Dean: "The Truth Is Everybody Needs To Pay More Taxes, Not Just The Rich"

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    What was difficult to understand. One could have looked at the House and specifically at the Democrats when Obama submitted his budget proposals. Twice Obama submitted and he could not get one Democrat to vote for it. Which doesn't include the Senate. Do you think they had a different agenda than what Obama was looking for? Why would his own party not back such proposals? Or at least why Not the Demos even in the State of Illinois.
    The Democrats would not vote for the budget because of the amendments made by the GOP, but nice job of changing the subject to something other than what my comment was about.
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    Re: Howard Dean: "The Truth Is Everybody Needs To Pay More Taxes, Not Just The Rich"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo Rodeo View Post
    Because if Republicans don't, they catch flack for being "unpatriotic." And if Democrats don't, it starts another debate and they don't want to distract from the current class warfare rhetoric. So, feed the monkey while it's still on your back, right before you shoot it in the face.
    I don't buy it.....not unanimous agreement by both sides.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Howard Dean: "The Truth Is Everybody Needs To Pay More Taxes, Not Just The Rich"

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    So, to you, killing people who are not as bright, or as healthy, is the same as taking more money away from wealthier people than what we take from less wealthy people?
    if the good of society is all that matters.......

    taking money from the wealthy does exactly what in terms of real good?

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    Re: Howard Dean: "The Truth Is Everybody Needs To Pay More Taxes, Not Just The Rich"

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I'm not just saying cut spending, I am saying completely eliminate social security, medicare/medicaid, and slash defense to skeleton crew status. That's the only way out. Anything else is pissing in the wind, including any tax suggestion up to and including 100% confiscation.

    If 100% confiscation could get us out of this mess, I would advocate just that. But the only sensible solution is elimination of the Big Three government expenses. Have you seen the numbers?? It is staggering. The welfare payouts and defense spending dwarf anything else out there. Increasing revenue is great (I'm being ideologically neutral here, just talking in terms of solutions), but it won't work.

    We are junkies. A junkie can try to increase he revenue, maybe he sends out job applications or searches for scrap metal or panhandles or something. That is analogous to taxes. What the junkie needs is to get off the junk. The junk is analogous to medicare, medicaid, and defense overspending. Until the junkie is clean, there is no way that revenue increases can even make a dent.
    100% confiscation-you advocate it?

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    Re: Howard Dean: "The Truth Is Everybody Needs To Pay More Taxes, Not Just The Rich"

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    if the good of society is all that matters.......

    taking money from the wealthy does exactly what in terms of real good?
    First, the good of the society is not ALL that matters...it's a balance beam, in which we delicately capitulate from one side to the other...the good of the many, over the good of the few...

    Second, taking money from the more wealthy affects the ability to afford our government, and all it's services, without reducing the spending power of the greatest segment of the consumer culture...the middle class.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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