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Thread: Lawyers to ask Wisconsin court to rule in prayer death

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    Re: Lawyers to ask Wisconsin court to rule in prayer death

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    This is one of those issues where, no matter how it's decided in statute, someone loses their constitutional freedoms.
    How so? the child died because of willful negligence of the parents. Render onto Caesar. There is no first amendment rights to murder or the murderer.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

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    Re: Lawyers to ask Wisconsin court to rule in prayer death

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    It depends on the state. In California, they can't get away with it. In Minnesota they can. We'll see what Wisconsin does.
    Wisconsin will condemn the parents for the hannis act of Willful neglence of a ward (aka Negligent homicide) as it should be
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

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    Re: Lawyers to ask Wisconsin court to rule in prayer death

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    The legal question is a bit complicated, because specific Wisconsin law states a parent who used faith/prayer healing of a child and that fails may not be charged with child abuse.

    The state claimed that since the charge was murder, not child abuse, that legal protection doesn't apply. The defense attorney argues that is a dodge around the law and Wisconsin should first have to change - or at least clarify - the statute because murdering a child certainly is "child abuse" and specific law says a parent can't be charged with child abuse for failed faith healing.

    In short the defense is arguing that the prosecution was making the absurd claim that murdering your child isn't abusing your child. The prosecution claims that child abuse and child murder aren't the same.

    While I do NOT support the principle of letting a child die upon a religious belief if this extreme, I think the defense is correct technically. Murdering a child is child abuse - and the law as written exempts faith healing from criminal prosecution for child abuse. In short, it is a bad old law that needs to be changed, but criminal laws can not be made retroactive.

    So it is more than just a generic question.
    You're raising a good point, and you're correct that murdering the child is also child abuse, but therein lies the problem with the reasoning of the defense. Imagine this was a much more straightforward situation: dad beats the child to death. In all probability he'd be charged with both child abuse and murder. It's not necessary to just pick one. Here, we have a situation where both charges apply, but the defendants are shielded from one of them. That usually isn't - and shouldn't be - a bar to prosecuting them on the other charge.

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    Re: Lawyers to ask Wisconsin court to rule in prayer death

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    Wisconsin will condemn the parents for the hannis act of Willful neglence of a ward (aka Negligent homicide) as it should be
    Hopefully. Like I said, it did go the other way in Minnesota, and not all that long ago (I think). Also, I normally wouldn't correct someone's spelling, but since you're German, I thought you might appreciate it in this case: the word is "heinous," not "hannis."

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    Re: Lawyers to ask Wisconsin court to rule in prayer death

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Hopefully. Like I said, it did go the other way in Minnesota, and not all that long ago (I think). Also, I normally wouldn't correct someone's spelling, but since you're German, I thought you might appreciate it in this case: the word is "heinous," not "hannis."
    I'm an American and don't pay attention to my spelling for health reasons. I am Ethnic German-American (correction)
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

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    Re: Lawyers to ask Wisconsin court to rule in prayer death

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    I'm an American and don't pay attention to my spelling for health reasons. I am Ethnic German-American (correction)
    Ah. I was under the impression that you were a German national living in the US. My mistake.

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    Re: Lawyers to ask Wisconsin court to rule in prayer death

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Ah. I was under the impression that you were a German national living in the US. My mistake.
    No problem. I like it when posters do that. It makes me feel warm all over. Ethnic does not infer "national" it generally refers to a citizen who maintains the langauge, culture, heritage and traditions, and history of their ancestors.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

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    Re: Lawyers to ask Wisconsin court to rule in prayer death

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    No problem. I like it when posters do that. It makes me feel warm all over. Ethnic does not infer "national" it generally refers to a citizen who maintains the langauge, culture, heritage and traditions, and history of their ancestors.
    Sure. I actually just figured out that I was conflating you with German Guy. You have similar avatars. He is, I'm pretty sure, a German national.

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    Re: Lawyers to ask Wisconsin court to rule in prayer death

    Quote Originally Posted by Aderleth View Post
    Sure. I actually just figured out that I was conflating you with German Guy. You have similar avatars. He is, I'm pretty sure, a German national.
    He is a good Berliner.
    "Those who do not learn from history and condemned to relive it".

    "There are those who will debate the necessity of wilderness, I will not, either you know it in your bones or you are very very old". Aldo Leopold - Sand County Almanac

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    Re: Lawyers to ask Wisconsin court to rule in prayer death

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfman24 View Post
    He is a good Berliner.
    I like Berlin. Lots of artsy German Girls in Goth attire. Also good sausage.

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