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Thread: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

  1. #61
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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by RLWSNOOK View Post
    Are you responding to my post? Go read what I said in response to your claim, " Myself and much of the rest of the country just don't buy the trickle down policies of the Republicans anymore. " I showed you how Obama is no different than bush. You want to talk about the wars, Obama is for the wars, his difference is not the time frame, but if we announce the time frame or not.. As for cutting social programs, lets talk about this, as Obama too has cut social programs, medicare... He "paid for it" as he said we can reduce the amount they pay to doctors, but go ask a doctor if they plan on seeing medicare patients if they cut the amount they pay them. The answer is they won't... So yes we can go back and forth about who is for cutting what, but the fact of the matter is Social security was a program set up to pay out benefits for 2 years, now it pays out for 20 years yet no changes in funding for the program have really taken place. Medicare, we pay in 30 dollars and get out 100 dollars in benefits. Clearly we can argue back and forth how the other guy is evil for wanting to try and fix this, but it doesn't speak towards reality, we promised more than we have money to afford, we can kick the can down the road and hope someone else will deal with it, or we can deal with it sooner when it is less of an issue and easier to fix.
    The unnecessary war in Iraq is where a big chunk of our debt came from. Debt that has to be paid through taxpayer dollars, not to mention all the blood of civilians on both sides. Obama ended the GOP war in Iraq, despite protests from Romney, McCain and other from the right. That unnecessary war very negatively affected our debt

    I agree that spending cuts need to be made, especially after our economy fully recovers from the recession. As the CBO has stated however, drastically cutting back on spending and letting the middle class tax cuts expire could throw us back into another recession.

    What I am confused about is why, since the majority of Americans support it, and it is so critical to our economy, that the GOP won't join the Democrats in passing the extension of the Middle class tax cuts while they work out the rest?
    Last edited by Catawba; 12-04-12 at 05:02 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Let me refresh your memory: "Mitt Romney has proposed huge tax cuts that principally benefit the wealthy, while refusing to say how he would pay for them by closing unspecified loopholes."
    What Is Romney's Tax Plan? - NYTimes.com

    One side has fought to preserve the middle class tax cuts and one side has fought to preserve the tax cuts for the wealthy. The Democrat controlled Senate has passed a bill extending the middle class tax cuts. The GOP controlled House refuses to bring it to the floor for a vote. If they maintain this attitude towards the middle class they will have the House taken from them as well in 2014.
    Romney proposed tax rate cuts with elimination of deductions to keep it revenue neutral. Thus, no promise to increase tax cuts for the wealthy.

    One side has fought to preserve tax cuts for the middle class, and the other side has fought to preserve tax cuts for EVERYONE. Youre just spinning now.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Which party has held the middle class tax cuts hostage to continue the tax cuts for the wealthy? In which party did almost every single member vote for the very costly and unnecesary war in Iraq? Which party has been willing to sacrifice the environment to keep their taxes a little lower? Which party has proposed policy to cut social programs in order to continue the tax cuts for the wealthy? And you are still confused as to why America picked Obama?
    The democrats have held the middle class tax cuts hostage to punish the wealthy. The Iraq war was not costly. Republicans. No one. Yes.

    Do we need to keep having the same debate over and over? People voted Republicans in to control taxes and spending since those are the power of the House. When it comes to commanding the military, making treaties, nominating judges, then you can pull the election card.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The unnecessary war in Iraq is where a big chunk of our debt came from. Debt that has to be paid through taxpayer dollars, not to mention all the blood of civilians on both sides. Obama ended the GOP war in Iraq, despite protests from Romney, McCain and other from the right. That unnecessary war very negatively affected our debt

    I agree that spending cuts need to be made, especially after our economy fully recovers from the recession. As the CBO has stated however, drastically cutting back on spending and letting the middle class tax cuts expire could throw us back into another recession.

    What I am confused about is why, since the majority of Americans support it, and it is so critical to our economy, that the GOP won't join the Democrats in passing the extension of the Middle class tax cuts while they work out the rest?
    Because the rest would never come. Why not permanently extend all the tax cuts and then figure out the rest?

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Because the rest would never come. Why not permanently extend all the tax cuts and then figure out the rest?
    Because then they couldn't do you know what.....

    charlie brown.jpg

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Because the rest would never come. Why not permanently extend all the tax cuts and then figure out the rest?
    Because we had an election and the people have said they don't give a rat's ass about protecting the tax cuts for the wealthy.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    RIGHTWING FRAUD ALERT!

    QE had a single purpose: to counteract the deflationary pressure of the Bush Meltdown. It had nothing to do with inflating the currency market. And of course, we have little or no inflation -- despite increasing the money supply enormously through QE. And that telss us how serious the deflationary pressure of the Bush failure was.
    So we are still under going deflation? Why did QE3 which was put into place around September of 2012 go forward then...

    Federal Reserve launches QE3 - Sep. 13, 2012

    Ps CNN isn't a right wing website...

    And note there were more QE's than just the first one, QE1, QE2, Operation Twist, QE3... They keep on coming out with more and more..

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The unnecessary war in Iraq is where a big chunk of our debt came from. Debt that has to be paid through taxpayer dollars, not to mention all the blood of civilians on both sides. Obama ended the GOP war in Iraq, despite protests from Romney, McCain and other from the right. That unnecessary war very negatively affected our debt

    I agree that spending cuts need to be made, especially after our economy fully recovers from the recession. As the CBO has stated however, drastically cutting back on spending and letting the middle class tax cuts expire could throw us back into another recession.

    What I am confused about is why, since the majority of Americans support it, and it is so critical to our economy, that the GOP won't join the Democrats in passing the extension of the Middle class tax cuts while they work out the rest?
    First of all, the wars + tarp+ stimulus spending under obama's time frame of being in office = approx $2 trillion The national debt under Obama has gone from $10.5 T to $16.3 T...

    As for how you are confused why the republicans won't support the middle class tax cut, I will ask you to ponder this, why did the democrats not vote for Obama's budget proposal in the senate? These things are theoretical... And we know, that people in Washington are very hard to get to do anything. By only passing tax cuts for the middle class it is saying you will not keep tax cuts for anyone who makes over $250,000 some of which should have tax cuts, because of many reasons, one they are small businesses, two $250k is not that much money and they are likely still paying off debt to get to where they are (in the case of a doctor or lawyer)... Needless to say you only see the theoretical part of the problem, Democrats know if they just pass the middle class tax cuts nothing else will ever come, and the "wealthy" will get hit... Further it doesn't solve the problem..> The problem is we need to make up for our deficit... middle class tax cuts are great and we should have them, but that means we need to cut further and deeper into things such as medicare, social security, which democrats never will do.. SO why the republicans won't support this is more than just giving the middle class a break, it is what will be needed to do if we only give the middle class a break, it's the whole big picture.
    Last edited by RLWSNOOK; 12-04-12 at 05:33 PM.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Wrong. The narrative has always been that the Bush tax cuts benefit the wealthy FAR more than the middle class. We simply can't afford to keep giving these gifts to people who simply don't need the extra money and don't spend it anyway.. Raising rates on those that spend all they earn is self-defeating as all the money will come right out of GDP, slowing growth and jeopardizing the recovery.
    Then why is it that if those tax cuts benefited the wealthy so much more than the middle class when they were enacted they will now HURT the middle class so much more than the wealthy if they expire? You can't have it both ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Raised the average after-tax income of the top 1 percent of households by 6.7 percent (or $66,618);
    Raised the average after-tax income of the top 20 percent of households by 4.6 percent (or $7,860); but
    Raised the average after-tax income of the middle 20 percent of households by 2.8 percent (or $1,039), and
    Raised the average after-tax income of the bottom 20 percent of households by just 1.0 percent (or $99).

    Polls show that it is Republicans who will be blamed if the middle class tax cuts are not renewed because they care more about the top 2%.
    You've listed the top 1%, the top 20%(of which the top 1% is included), the "middle" 20% and the "lower" 20%. That's a total of 60%. You're analysis is missing 40% somewhere. Oversight, or are you cherry picking data?

    The real comparison is pretty simple when talking about the middle class. Prior to the Bush tax cuts rates on people filing single were: 27K/yr to 65K/yr were taxed at 27.5%. 65K/yr to 135K/yr were taxed at 30.5% Today those making 35K/yr to 85K/yr are taxed at 25% and those making 85K/yr to 178K/yr are taxed at 28%. So basically, the "middle class" is looking at a 2.5% increase should the rates expire. Look, I'm not advocating letting the "rich" slide by here. All's I want is a fair discussion about this stuff without all of the spin.

    The real motive behind this is how it effects the "effective rate" a person pays. Lets use someone who is classified as "rich" who makes 500K/yr. Under the current system, the top rate of 35% is applied to any amount of income over $388,350. In this case the person would have $111,650 exposed to the top rate. If the Democrats get what they want, the tax rates on all money earned above 250K/yr would be subject to rates of 35.5% from 250K to 388K(if the tables are left intact) and 39.1% for everything over 388K. Under the new scenario this same person would have $138,000 of his income exposed to a rate .5% higher than it is currently and $112,000 exposed to a rate 4.1% higher than it is currently. Fully one half, or $250,000 will now be exposed to a tax rate higher than it is currently whereas, today, only $112,000 has exposure to rates this high. So there is definitely a "slight of hand" going on here and I'm sick and tired of these very legitimate concerns being downed out by a bunch of rhetorical nonsense.(not directed at you personally)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have pooped in public, even in public neighborhoods.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by RLWSNOOK View Post
    First of all, the wars + tarp+ stimulus spending under obama's time frame of being in office = approx $2 trillion The national debt under Obama has gone from $10.5 T to $16.3 T...

    As for how you are confused why the republicans won't support the middle class tax cut, I will ask you to ponder this, why did the democrats not vote for Obama's budget proposal in the senate? These things are theatrical... And we know, that people in Washington are very hard to get to do anything. By only passing tax cuts for the middle class it is saying you will not keep tax cuts for anyone who makes over $250,000 some of which should have tax cuts, because of many reasons, one they are small businesses, two $250k is not that much money and they are likely still paying off debt to get to where they are (in the case of a doctor or lawyer)... Needless to say you only see the theatrical part of the problem, Democrats know if they just pass the middle class tax cuts nothing else will ever come, and the "wealthy" will get hit... Further it doesn't solve the problem..> The problem is we need to make up for our deficit... middle class tax cuts are great and we should have them, but that means we need to cut further and deeper into things such as medicare, social security, which democrats never will do.. SO why the republicans won't support this is more than just giving the middle class a break, it is what will be needed to do if we only give the middle class a break, it's the whole big picture.
    I see, you hold Obama responsible for a war that he opposed and a majority of Democrats voted against, as well as the other spending bills and worst Recession since the Great Depression created under Bush. That helps explain your delusion that the Republicans are on the side of the working man.

    0 Democrats voted for the budget because they found out it was going to be filibustered. And 98% of small businesses are not affected by the tax proposal from the Democrats. As a matter of fact, Obama has given additional tax cuts and credits to small businesses.

    You have failed at convincing the middle class they should accept higher taxes and less benefits from the programs they have paid into in order for the wealthy to continue getting tax cuts that haven't created jobs. The tax cuts we gave them to create jobs were used to move jobs overseas. So, like we said during the election........

    Thanks but no thanks!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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