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Thread: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Nope, both times the middle class tax cuts came up, it was the GOP that held the middle class tax cuts hostage to protect the tax cuts for the wealthy. If the GOP continues to sacrifice the middle class to protect the tax cuts for the wealthy, they will lose the House in addition to the White House they lost. The middle class is tired of being ****ed with. Just sayin'......
    Yes you have figured out the strategy of the democrats, blame the Republicans. But this does not mean the democrats are for the middle class... It's a chess game as I have said... The republicans did the same thing when they put up Obama's budget and 0 democrats voted for it... Obama budget defeated 99-0 in Senate - Washington Times

    You can play politics and try to get very technical saying the republicans didn't do this because they are against the middle class, and it is a strategy that has worked thus far... But don't try to claim the democrats are trying to come up with a compromise here... They aren't, it's their way or screw the middle class... That's the official liberal position.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by RLWSNOOK View Post
    Yes you have figured out the strategy of the democrats, blame the Republicans. But this does not mean the democrats are for the middle class... It's a chess game as I have said... The republicans did the same thing when they put up Obama's budget and 0 democrats voted for it... Obama budget defeated 99-0 in Senate - Washington Times

    You can play politics and try to get very technical saying the republicans didn't do this because they are against the middle class, and it is a strategy that has worked thus far... But don't try to claim the democrats are trying to come up with a compromise here... They aren't, it's their way or screw the middle class... That's the official liberal position.

    Its no game. Myself and much of the rest of the country just don't buy the trickle down policies of the Republicans anymore. Pain has a way of sharpening the senses. But knock yourself out and try to convince us that we can suffer a little more so that the wealthy can continue to get their tax cuts.

    Good luck with that!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Its no game. Myself and much of the rest of the country just don't buy the trickle down policies of the Republicans anymore. Pain has a way of sharpening the senses. But knock yourself out and try to convince us that we can suffer a little more so that the wealthy can continue to get their tax cuts.

    Good luck with that!
    If you don't buy trickle down economics why do you support the President? He appointed Ben Bernanke to the Fed, who has done quantitative easing in hopes the markets will go up, and banks will loan, and that wealth from the markets trickles down, and the loans trickle down.

    If you aren't for the trickle down economics, why would you support the president? Who's record has been one where the rich have gotten richer (due to the fact they own the most stocks and thanks to Quantitative easing the markets have gone up) and the middle class have gotten poorer. We've seen the average incomes decline over this period.

    It's one thing to say you are for the middle class, it is another to put forth policies that support the middle class... To date President Obama's policies have not helped but hurt the middle class and only led to Trickle down economics, which I thought you said you didn't like...

    But maybe I'm confused, and you do like trickle down economics.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    I don't recall any Republican fighting to preserve tax cuts for the wealthy but not for the middle class. Their position has been very clear all along in that they wanted ALL of the rates to remain as they are currently.

    It's kind of funny when you think back to when these rates were enacted in the first place. The left immediately packaged them in the narrative of "tax cuts for the rich", ignoring the fact that lower and middle class Americans also got a tax break. Now that those rates are set to expire unless a deal can be struck the left's narrative has shifted and all they seem to want to talk about is how letting these rates expire will be catastrophic to the middle class, costing the average family 2-3 grand a year. Well, the same bill that was passed under G.W.B. is the same bill that set the current rates for the middle class in the first place. Sure, the wealthy got a nice piece of the pie, too, but if you add it all up, BY FAR the bulk of the actual money not collected due to the lower rates stayed in the pockets of the middle class. If this were purely about generating more revenue then letting all of the tax rates expire would be the way to go. Hell, there's far more bang for the buck by preserving the upper class tax rates and letting the middle class rates expire than the other way around.

    But it isn't only about generating more revenue. It's about generating more revenue that will not hurt you at the ballot box. If I were the Republicans, I'd let all of the rates expire. At least then both parties would suffer an equal wrath.
    Wrong. The narrative has always been that the Bush tax cuts benefit the wealthy FAR more than the middle class. We simply can't afford to keep giving these gifts to people who simply don't need the extra money and don't spend it anyway.. Raising rates on those that spend all they earn is self-defeating as all the money will come right out of GDP, slowing growth and jeopardizing the recovery.

    Raised the average after-tax income of the top 1 percent of households by 6.7 percent (or $66,618);
    Raised the average after-tax income of the top 20 percent of households by 4.6 percent (or $7,860); but
    Raised the average after-tax income of the middle 20 percent of households by 2.8 percent (or $1,039), and
    Raised the average after-tax income of the bottom 20 percent of households by just 1.0 percent (or $99).

    Polls show that it is Republicans who will be blamed if the middle class tax cuts are not renewed because they care more about the top 2%.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 12-04-12 at 04:06 PM.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by RLWSNOOK View Post
    If you don't buy trickle down economics why do you support the President? He appointed Ben Bernanke to the Fed, who has done quantitative easing in hopes the markets will go up, and banks will loan, and that wealth from the markets trickles down, and the loans trickle down.

    If you aren't for the trickle down economics, why would you support the president? Who's record has been one where the rich have gotten richer (due to the fact they own the most stocks and thanks to Quantitative easing the markets have gone up) and the middle class have gotten poorer. We've seen the average incomes decline over this period.

    It's one thing to say you are for the middle class, it is another to put forth policies that support the middle class... To date President Obama's policies have not helped but hurt the middle class and only led to Trickle down economics, which I thought you said you didn't like...

    But maybe I'm confused, and you do like trickle down economics.

    Which party has held the middle class tax cuts hostage to continue the tax cuts for the wealthy? In which party did almost every single member vote for the very costly and unnecesary war in Iraq? Which party has been willing to sacrifice the environment to keep their taxes a little lower? Which party has proposed policy to cut social programs in order to continue the tax cuts for the wealthy? And you are still confused as to why America picked Obama?
    Last edited by Catawba; 12-04-12 at 04:10 PM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Which party has held the middle class tax cuts hostage to continue the tax cuts for the wealthy? In which party did almost every single member vote for the very costly and unnecesary war in Iraq? Which party has been willing to sacrifice the environment to keep their taxes a little lower? Which party has proposed policy to cut social programs in order to continue the tax cuts for the wealthy? And you are still confused as to why America picked Obama?
    Are you responding to my post? Go read what I said in response to your claim, " Myself and much of the rest of the country just don't buy the trickle down policies of the Republicans anymore. " I showed you how Obama is no different than bush. You want to talk about the wars, Obama is for the wars, his difference is not the time frame, but if we announce the time frame or not.. As for cutting social programs, lets talk about this, as Obama too has cut social programs, medicare... He "paid for it" as he said we can reduce the amount they pay to doctors, but go ask a doctor if they plan on seeing medicare patients if they cut the amount they pay them. The answer is they won't... So yes we can go back and forth about who is for cutting what, but the fact of the matter is Social security was a program set up to pay out benefits for 2 years, now it pays out for 20 years yet no changes in funding for the program have really taken place. Medicare, we pay in 30 dollars and get out 100 dollars in benefits. Clearly we can argue back and forth how the other guy is evil for wanting to try and fix this, but it doesn't speak towards reality, we promised more than we have money to afford, we can kick the can down the road and hope someone else will deal with it, or we can deal with it sooner when it is less of an issue and easier to fix.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by RLWSNOOK View Post
    If you don't buy trickle down economics why do you support the President? He appointed Ben Bernanke to the Fed, who has done quantitative easing in hopes the markets will go up, and banks will loan, and that wealth from the markets trickles down, and the loans trickle down.

    If you aren't for the trickle down economics, why would you support the president? Who's record has been one where the rich have gotten richer (due to the fact they own the most stocks and thanks to Quantitative easing the markets have gone up) and the middle class have gotten poorer. We've seen the average incomes decline over this period.

    It's one thing to say you are for the middle class, it is another to put forth policies that support the middle class... To date President Obama's policies have not helped but hurt the middle class and only led to Trickle down economics, which I thought you said you didn't like...

    But maybe I'm confused, and you do like trickle down economics.
    Re inflating a depressed currency market is not "trickle down" economics it is saving us from a depression. Most middle class people's 401K's are invested in the stock market so how does it only benefit the rich?

    Trickle down economics is a failed theory that claimed lowering taxes on the wealthy and corporations would bring prosperity for all. The Republicans have not got the message yet that the American people are sick of hearing "whats good for the rich is good for all" when they have seen for themselves that the opposite is more accurate. What's good for the rich is what is destroying our middle class. We need about 35 years of a NEW plan, where the rich pay their share and the middle class will rise agian.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Re inflating a depressed currency market is not "trickle down" economics it is saving us from a depression. Most middle class people's 401K's are invested in the stock market so how does it only benefit the rich?

    Trickle down economics is a failed theory that claimed lowering taxes on the wealthy and corporations would bring prosperity for all. The Republicans have not got the message yet that the American people are sick of hearing "whats good for the rich is good for all" when they have seen for themselves that the opposite is more accurate. What's good for the rich is what is destroying our middle class. We need about 35 years of a NEW plan, where the rich pay their share and the middle class will rise agian.
    I thought we wanted to deflate the currency market?... the dollar was too strong and we want to make it weaker... As then that can lead to further exports... Since when was it liberal policy to re inflate a depressed currency market?

    Further, the wealthy own more stocks than the middle class do, so what is good for the markets is good for the wealthy. We continue to see bailouts to markets the most recent one starting a few months back to the tune of $40 billion per month (when the market was at all time highs). Yes I understand republicans said that what is good for the wealthy is good for everyone as it would trickle down, but fed policy (through liberals appointing them) and quantitative easing is good for the wealthy... but it hasn't trickled down, in fact it has caused inflation, which hurts the middle class.

    Now yes the middle class has benifited from their 401k's going up, but that's only their retirement not today. The middle class who are of retirement age have been screwed by this policy of QE, which has depressed interest rates. The elderly who rely on safe investments such as CD's have seen their yields get crushed and are forced to live on less or take much more risk than they should to keep their life style...

    Further the middle class has seen prices rise, as QE forces investment out of safe assets, and into assets that protect them if inflation takes place due to the printing of money that goes along with QE... So things such as food, oil, commodities if you will have jumped. Which has led to the cost of living the prices of goods if you will to rise...

    All while, this recovery has been uncertain because our government is not about solutions and working together they are about getting their way and blaming the other party when nothing gets done (cough democrats cough). So there has been uncertainty, so rather than hire people like a company would in a normal recovery they hold onto cash and don't expand... More and more people are unemployed with fewer job openings leading to wages falling... Remember cost of living has gone up...

    Needless to say the policy of the democrats has hurt the middle class, and benefited the wealthy... Call it trickle down call it whatever you want, it's not the "middle out" the president has claimed... It's a trickle down at best...

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by RLWSNOOK View Post
    I thought we wanted to deflate the currency market?... the dollar was too strong and we want to make it weaker... As then that can lead to further exports... Since when was it liberal policy to re inflate a depressed currency market? ...
    RIGHTWING FRAUD ALERT!

    QE had a single purpose: to counteract the deflationary pressure of the Bush Meltdown. It had nothing to do with inflating the currency market. And of course, we have little or no inflation -- despite increasing the money supply enormously through QE. And that telss us how serious the deflationary pressure of the Bush failure was.

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    Re: GOP makes $2.2 Trillion Counteroffer to Obama - includes revenue increases

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Well that seems like a good strategy for the congress to employ. Shut Obama out, call meetings with Senate leaders and come up with something.
    Sure...but do you really think Reid and his Senate buddies will go along with that?
    TANSTAAFL

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    ― Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon

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